It’s online now (my honest opinion, it’s not worth paying for the ticket just to see it unless you’re planning to see a movie anyway), so sound off on what you think.
I’ll have my thoughts on the Holocron later today in fuller detail. The shots look cool (right, practical effects) but I had no sense of what this is all about. Interesting the emphasis was on new characters. Right now I’m a little baffled by the super ebullient over-the-top reactions I’ve seen because there just isn’t enough to bring a strong opinion one way or another. I thought the previous teasers were a lot better but this is the earliest they’ve ever done a teaser. I hope for something more substantial in the spring.
Update: I’ve got a longer analysis here.
Tags: Saga
starwarsprequelappreciationsociety.wordpress.com 
November 28, 2014 at 10:52 am |
I still looking for the many, many “practical effects” 😀 Where are they? ^^
November 28, 2014 at 10:55 am |
It doesn’t look “bad”. But it doesn’t look anywhere remotely resembling “good”, either. Basically, it looks like a really expensive fanfilm, so far. It’s actually surprising how much CGI it looks to have (that Falcon shot looked faker than anything in the Prequels… even TCW looked more photorealistic). Design wise, it actually looks closer to TPM than anything else (probably Chiang’s influence). Only thing that really looked out of place was the steadicam on the Sith shot (and the fact that his lazer-hilt doesn’t look practical at all).
All in all– again, not bad, but “is that all there is?” is my biggest reaction. Underwhelming. Far from the jaw-dropping-and-you-know-it Prequel teasers.
November 28, 2014 at 11:05 am |
Thank you I wasn’t the only that noticed that. The first two shots of this thing I actually thought it looked like a fan trailer. Hell I’ve seen better shot fan trailers than this thing. I know it is a year away and the visual effects need some fixing but to me the way it is shot it just looks sloppy. (thankfully no lens flares hopefully he doesn’t add those in post).
November 28, 2014 at 11:41 am |
I’m sure some of these are not final effects shots, just hurried along for the teaser.
November 28, 2014 at 12:01 pm
I understand that, even people that were bashing the Jurassic World trailer I told them the effects are still a long way from finished. I’m just talking about how the thing is shot. (Film major so I kind of notice these things). Hell this morning I was trying to find the trailer and I accidentally found 2 fan trailers. Then when I found the actual trailer I actually thought I found another fan trailer. Just the way it is shot bugs me. The way the camera is set up, it just looks incredibly amateur and not professional at all.
November 28, 2014 at 3:05 pm |
I thought the effects shots in the trailer were way more flashy than what hateboys accuse the PT films of. The camera work is poorer than the earlier SW films, and why are all the ships flying super low to the surface for? The movements for the Falcon were really silly and over the top.
November 28, 2014 at 5:38 pm
Maybe the X-Wings are gonna go under water…
November 28, 2014 at 5:54 pm
Lol the X-wings go under water for no reason like the beginning of Into Darkness.
November 28, 2014 at 11:44 pm
Never saw Into Darkness. Maybe he is copying the Naboo segment from Stat Tours 2? Luke’s X-wing crashed when his ship hits the swap water in ESB.
November 28, 2014 at 11:02 am |
Agreed. I’d only pay big bucks at the theater if I wanted the “experience,” but my 55″ HDTV is more than up to the task. It’s a good trailer but pales in comparison to past Star Wars teasers… and frankly the Jurassic World teaser was a lot better.
November 28, 2014 at 11:16 am |
Yeah I am actually laughing my ass off right now because of all the idiots that said there wasn’t going to be any cgi in this movie. I counted at least 4 shots in this trailer that did. Overall I found the trailer to be underwhelming. Hell I mistook it for a fan trailer at first. Of course no information was given but I expected that because 1. movie doesn’t come out until next december, 2. this is Abrams we’re talking about. Really surprised the original cast wasn’t in this trailer. You think it will be like that or they just want to show that their film has diversity since they got criticized for that. Also female character how long until Abrams has her in her underwear. Really if I was to give a “trailer award” for this week it would have to be Jurassic World hands down. In fact I’m more excited for that movie than I am for this one. Of course you can’t tell that on the interenet because everyone is acting like this is a return to the OT, the errors of the PT are cleansed, blah blah blah, insert Mr. Plinkett review here, and I’m bashing my head into a desk because of how gullible these morons are. I will be fair and say it wasn’t as bad as i thought it was going to be, I thought it was just going to show clips from OT and just show the falcon flying through space. Thankfully he wasn’t that cheap.
November 28, 2014 at 11:32 am |
People are just projecting; there’s no basis at all to think this is “a return to the values of the OT.”
Jurassic World is going to be out in 6 months, TFA has more than a year to go, so the former can show a lot more and give a stronger sense of what the movie’s about.
November 28, 2014 at 11:52 am
I understand that. In fact I honestly think they should have waited. I’m just saying out of the trailers that came out this week I found Jurassic World more enjoyable. I really think they jumped the gun with this trailer. It felt like they were just trying to say “Hey Star Wars is back!” Yeah we get that anything else? Even the TPM trailer gave us more than that. I feel that Disney just thinks if they keep saying it’s star wars we’ll go see it. Kind of need more than that guys. Overall I was rather underwhelmed. In fact I think this trailer did more harm than good. But that is just me.
November 28, 2014 at 11:46 am |
I dunno, how long was it from the first TPM teaser to its release? That one gave WAY more information and substance on what it’d be about and like than this or even the “Jurassic World” trailer have offered. And yeah, JW wins the trailer award, because it sells us something with more significantly new things in it. Fully functioning Jurassic Park, new dinosaur genetic experiments, clear look at cast members and their roles, raptors on our side for once… I know more of what to expect. From TFA’s trailer, if I went into this blind, I’d think it were a trailer for a very bland looking video-game.
November 28, 2014 at 6:21 pm
It was six months between the first teaser release and TPM’s release.
November 28, 2014 at 1:28 pm |
I agree that they should have waited a bit until they could shore up some of the effects work, because certain scenes did feel very amateurish (Especially given ILM’s quality standard in the past). That being said, I loved the swelling of John William’s score as the trailer progressed, and the final shot of the Falcon was exhilarating. I wish the trailer would have given more context for the film’s plot, but I get that it is a teaser. I guess we’re back to the long wait-and-see game until more info/trailers/etc. are released next year…
November 28, 2014 at 11:37 am |
Rather underwhelming TBH. A lot of the shots looked really cheap, especially that internal X-wing shot. It is still 1 year away, so things can change, but I think I was right to keep my expectations low and yet somehow this teaser didn’t even meet those!
November 28, 2014 at 12:12 pm |
This trailer is really, really brief and honestly not worth squeeing and fanboying over. I don’t mean that to be a criticism at all since the movie is still literally more than a calendar year away. This is a “teaser” in the truest sense, just something to get the conversation started. Real trailers that actually tell you something typically come out about 6 months before their movies are released in theaters.
And yeah, there’s going to be a ton of CGI in this movie, since technology has advanced another 10-15 years since the prequels. Visually, it looks great. Technically better than the prequels. Better than the originals too, though you won’t hear that many people saying that.
I’m not going to even bother checking that many comment threads and forums leading up to this movie though. I’m pretty much done with most forums which only cater to the 0.0001% most obsessive and cynical older fans anyway.
If they’re losing it over this almost blink and you’ll miss trailer, then most likely they’re building up unmatchable expectations. I actually sympathize with J.J. Abrams a bit here. The online Trek fans have already turned on him after Star Trek into Darkness. It won’t take much for the online Star Wars fans to do the same. All that needs to happen is for Episode VII to be another movie, and not the flawless “make up” for the prequels and 100% recreation of the 1977 original that certain fans are expecting.
November 28, 2014 at 12:41 pm |
I’m not sure about “better than the prequels”. Maybe it’s early effects work at play here, but the X-Wings and Falcon shots look more artificial than anything I saw in the PT or TCW.
November 28, 2014 at 2:38 pm
I thought the the effects shots in this trailer were way more flashy than what Lucas is accused of doinfg in the PT films. Through I agree that the CGI is more advanced but the camera shots in the trailer are much poorer and more than Lucas’s shots while also trying to be more over the top.
To be fair every artist has their own style and should expect JJ’s film is going to be different from a Lucas film. Hopefully it woun’t be just fan service to the internet hateboys.
November 28, 2014 at 12:46 pm |
Nail. Head. Hit.
It’s disappointing that people are setting themselves up for a fall yet again.
November 28, 2014 at 6:27 pm |
Yeah, I thought it was over the top for so little. I can understand people are excited to see anything, anything at all, new in Star Wars. This made it that more real. But to paraphrase Leia, this wasn’t quite enough to get me (that) excited.
November 28, 2014 at 1:33 pm |
I actually really liked that they made a conscious effort to show the new characters (trooper guy, woman on repulsorcraft with cool engine sound) rather than the old cast, backed by a new original John Williams track.
However, the trailer went downhill with the blatant nostalgia appeals and OTT elements: the X-Wings barely evolved from the time of the Rebellion, the Millennium Falcon pulling a disorienting loop whilst being fired upon by tediously unchanged TIE fighters with the SW fanfare in the background, the dark-sider with the ludicrous crossbar saber and hunched pose, the silly voiceover. Everything up to and excluding the X-Wings over the water was great. Nothing after that inspired much confidence.
The new trooper armor design was great, even if some details (the reflectivity of the bodysuit piping, the lack of dust adhesion) were suspect. Phase II is still vastly better IMO, but this is an evolution that I can believe in. The strobe lighting it was subject to was frustrating, though that probably served the purpose of keeping people wanting more. Perhaps Doug Chiang or Ian McCaig could be thanked for that excellent continuation of the lineage began on Kamino?
Honestly, I might have preferred a teaser that hinted at the basic plot with a montage from the OT and PT, completely devoid of new footage. This didn’t reveal much beyond the strained aesthetic of the film – the innovative Chiang/McCaig spirit struggling against corporate nostalgia exploitation. On balance, this teaser didn’t make me feel any happier about the movie.
November 28, 2014 at 2:53 pm |
I really hope that “trooper guy” is just a rebel in disguise and not JJ trying to make stormtrooper recruits instead of clones. I never understood why so many fans want stormtroopers to be recruits? The X-wings didn’t look different from the originals nor did the Ties. The scene with the stormtroopers looked more like Tron than Starwars. The voiceover was silly and I am disappointed they are reusing the Empire, civil war from the OT, dark siders, and rebels instead of coming up with something new. Guess the happy ending at ROTJ wasn’t really so happy.
November 28, 2014 at 3:00 pm
The Return of the Empire is not something I look forward to seeing. Say what you will about the EU’s introduction of the Yuuzhan Vong, but they were very consciously a break from the string of Imperial warlords and superweapons who are bizarrely capable of forcing the Alliance onto the fringe years after the catastrophic defeat at Endor.
It was recognized back in the 1990s that the Empire striking back again and again was not even remotely believable or exciting, and increasingly out of place given what was about to be revealed about the Empire’s origins in the PT. I’d hoped that the new custodians of the Star Wars franchise would have learned from this, but alas…
November 28, 2014 at 3:18 pm
I am surprised they didn’t go with “Return of the Empire” as the title, LOL. It looks like they are keeping things too much the same as the OT.
About the best way to return the empire would be to have some former imperal big shots form a underground crime organization, like former nazis and ex KGB members did. But it would not be a full scale major war like in the OT.
November 28, 2014 at 3:32 pm
Forgot to say, they could have at least used Tie Interceptors which were clearly an advancement over Tie Fighters, in the trailer. So they went backwards with the Ties in the trailer, not just stagnant.
November 28, 2014 at 3:53 pm
Re: clones and other troopers – Just speaking for myself (as a die-hard clone fan since 2002, who used to love the idea of armoured Imperials being clones), I like the idea of stormtroopers being recruits as it draws a firm line under the era of the Clone Wars and the ultimate tragedy of the clone troopers.
Consider how wantonly armored Imperials are dispatched in the Rebellion era. We cheer with Han and Luke as they vape the TIE pilots on their tail. The violence inflicted on the Imps in armor is oftentimes comedic. Their helmets are used as Ewok drums in the celebrations following the Battle of Endor.
In light of the notion that these are human beings who have had their free will stripped from them with genetic modification, this is pretty bloody sick, to be honest.
I don’t know what Lucas intended when he first created the clone troopers when writing AOTC and plotting out the PT, but under the interpretation that the stormtroopers, scouts, TIE pilots and other armoured Imperials are all clones, then the clones effectively become Star Wars’ race of “orcs” – Palpatine’s subhuman, innately evil automatons who can be gunned down with glee because they’re too inhuman to be reasoned with. That may be in keeping with fantasy fiction, but the harder sci-fi elements introduced with AOTC cannot be avoided.
This interpretation of clones in Star Wars – as “orcs” – also jars quite heavily with their depiction in ROTS. Lucas made the humanisation of the clones part and parcel of the tragedy of the film. Anakin’s compassion is demonstrated when he tries – only to be halted by Obi-Wan – to fly to the aid of beleaguered clone pilots. Obi-Wan’s friendly interactions with Cody are juxtaposed with Cody’s instantaneous transition into a stone-cold killer. The tragedy of the Order 66 montage is in no small part due to how Palpatine has stripped the clones of their humanity, forcing them to betray their friends and comrades. This was the payoff from Obi-Wan’s discovery of the clone army on Kamino back in the middle of AOTC and what we learned about these clones in the place where they were born, and damn was it sad.
The one scene when the good guys do kill clone troopers is also presented as a deeply regrettable incident. Lucas doesn’t shy away from sounding their screams of pain as they’re graphically killed with amputations and impalements, and he backs it with a suitably mournful John Williams piece. There was a scene filmed of clones masquerading as Jedi and Obi-Wan mocking their terrible disguises, but this was cut; the result was a depiction of the conflict between the heroes and the clones as tragic.
That one scene is just incomparable to the various scenes of violence inflicted upon Imperials in the OT. I reckon that I started to dislike the idea of armoured Imperials being clones when I saw the films in chronological order one time. I personally thought that that the depiction of Imperials in the OT was jarring with what we see of the clones in ROTS. It almost made a mockery of scenes like the battle at the Jedi Temple and Order 66. These were typical fantasy fiction minions, shorn of the complexity and pathos of the clones’ story in the PT. The tragedy of the clones was simply not fulfilled by the depiction of the Imperials in the OT. It’s like Anakin’s portrayal in the PT being followed up with Darth Vader as a comedic slapstick villain who the audience laughs at.
Lucas then continued to explore the clone troopers with TCW, and he never shied from humanising them in the show. Many episodes and arcs – the vast majority masterminded by Lucas himself, as per the writers – focused primarily on clones, their ethical quandaries and their role in the saga. The final one of these arcs delved into Order 66, revealing that the command was programmed into the clones but is not innate to them. This only heightened the tragedy of what we knew was to come in ROTS.
Bear in mind that JJ Abrams and Dave Filoni aren’t deciding that troopers after the Clone Wars are not clones; George Lucas decided this.
http://www.theforce.net/story/front/Rebelscums_NYCC_Star_Wars_Rebels_Panel_Report_154734.asp
From an IU perspective, I don’t fully accept the “too individualistic” explanation, but I can accept the idea that the Empire would try to engage the citizenry in the military rather than continue to rely on outsourced soldiers existing outside general society.
From an OOU perspective, however, I wholeheartedly endorse the idea that clone production ceases after ROTS and that the remaining clones age out of service. It gives what I think is a satisfactory conclusion to the story of the clone troopers without demeaning it. It isn’t the central tragedy of ROTS and the PT (that being Anakin Skywalker’s), but like that of the Jedi Order and the Galactic Republic, the tragedy of the clone troopers is one that shouldn’t be diminished by the franchise.
Just my personal interpretation.
November 28, 2014 at 11:31 pm
That is an interesting way to look at it, but the idea of Stormtroopers being clones goes all the way back to at least 1978 when Lusasfilm sourcebooks stated Stormtroopers were man made men, clones http://www.theforce.net/image_popup/image_popup_global.asp?Image=timetales/misc/arcana/post4-03.jpg. Lucas also stated in a Total Film article “I had thought of using Boba Fett earlier on, which is how I came to use him in the first place as a bounty hunter, His role really has more to do with the clones than it does with anything else. Boba Fett originally came out of the fact that he was associated with the Stormtroopers. There was a relationship between them that had to do with the fact that they were all clones. Boba Fett was the son of the original clone. And that story was all I had to go with when Boba Fett was introduced in Empire. (ESB) That was his back-story. That was all I had on him. But I?ve continued that idea and expanded on it in Episode II.”
Personally I find clones works very well with the Empire’s MO and really fits their MO better than recruits. That the subjects of the Empire don’t have to fight, the clones will fight for them and protect them which would make the Empire popular at first. The clones have no homeworld, no families, no culture, and most importantly no official representation. When they die on the field no one will miss them, no family will morn them, no planet will suffer the loss of sons and daughters like what would happen if constituents are out dying on the battlefield. In short, it makes war much easier when faceless troops die. The irony being they oppress the subjucts like we saw in the background in ROTS post 66. You don’t want your serfs to know how to fight either. Keep in mind that the cloning idea is directly in line with some of the themes GL is exploring in this story. The industrilaization of humanity…literally throw away manufactured people, this idea goes hand in glove with the whole portrayal of the Empire as a cold machine oriented society as opposed to the more organic and spiritual Rebellion who still believe in the Force.
Also Lucas stated in the AOTC DVD commentary, he had Jango bump his head entering the Slave 1 in AOTC as a gag explaining where the Stormtroopers inherited that trait from, which implies the Empire is still using cloning in the OT. Besides the ANH Stormtroopers all sound alike which really imples they are clones. Lucas also ordered Hasbro to give all the helmited imperal action figures to have removeable helmits with Jango heads, and even LEGO did this with their minifigures. So at one time he must have felt pretty strongly about this.
Don’t forget Stormtroopers are very effective at times in the OT, mowing down rebels onboard the Tantive IV, on Hoth, and capturing the Rebel strike team on Endor, hardly comedic. I believe the Ewokes defeated the Stormtroopers through surprise and the Empire’s and the Stormtroopers own hubris. After kicking battle droid, Jedi, and Rebel butts for decades would swell anyone’s ego. The stormtroopers I would say are more like the Sardaukar of Dune (who also suffered from hubris) than Orcs from the LOTR.
But I find Lucas flip-flop on this bizarre. AOTC outright states clones are made docile to be ultra obedient, to obey orders like 66 without question, no silly brainwashing or remote controls. “We modified their genetic structure to make them less independent than the original host. As a result they are totally obedient, taking any order without question.” Only droids could be more obedient and loyal. It also is better for exerting control to have clone shock troops…they are ABSOLUTELY Loyal because you MADE them. You don’t have to deal with raw recruits, people that are flawed, independent, etc. Clones are made to order enforcers of your will. The clones are just like normal humans save that their ability to have independent thought is limited. Making them fiercely loyal to whoever is imprinted on them. However, it would not be the first time TCW differered with the PT films, such as LAATs flying in space being a glaring example. The LAATs are clearly aircraft and not spacecraft in the films.
Stormtroopers being clones also explains how Obi-Wan knows how to sneak around and fool Stormtroopers. If they are clones than Obi-Wan would know from the clone wars how to handle them. I disagree Stormtroopers deaths are portrayed as being comedic or funny.
I also watched the films in order and I found no reason to even think Stormtroopers are not clones. There is nothing in the films that suggests recruits and lots of clues implying they are indeed clones. Stormtroopers suddenly becomeing recruits just feels hamfisted and out of character for the Empire. It is supposed to be wrong of the Republic and the Jedi to pervese life by using cloning for war, but it is something the Sith and the Empire could not care less about and again fits their MO perfectly. I believe stormtroopers being clones is unpopular is similar with midicloreans, the concepts interferes with fans pretending to be either Stormtroopers or Jedi and why many fans dislike those concepts.
Lucas commentary is difficult. Sometimes he is giving us additional information and explanation, but other moments he seems to be rabbiting on and massively contradicting what we’re witnessing on the screen in his films. Personally I think Disney pushed Lucas to change his stance on Stormtroopers into recruits to help futher distance TCW series. Regardless he has only inflamed the debate even worse now, can what he says trump what happens in the films? IE, if Lucas stated the Sith use yellow lightsabers when they clearly use red lightsabers, which do we believe? But I have heard rumors of Disney and the storygroup strong arming Lucas around which I sure hope isn’t true even though I suspect it is happening.
I feel sorry for the other readers who have to read these two walls of text, LOL.
November 29, 2014 at 12:12 pm
That’s okay.
You make a lot of good points. Personally I prefer the stormtroopers being clones. There might be some rah-rah Empire types who might want to join and obviously the officers seen on Star Destroyers, Death Star, etc. are not clones. But even so, if some guy performs really well, why not just clone him so one great recruit = 1,000,000 great troops. It’s what I would do. I can understand the Jango Fett strain can only do so much for so long and it would make sense to start cloning other people to help beef up the ranks to maximum advantage.
Perhaps Lucas is getting tired of the whole darn thing and just thinking, “I’m not going to fight these guys anymore, whatever.”
November 29, 2014 at 2:46 am
@Tarrlok and slicer87: This is an interesting discussion! Maybe this could be the basis for a nice article or something similar. 🙂
November 29, 2014 at 2:31 pm
Thank Stefan, the Stormtroopers have a twisting behind the scenes story that is for sure. In the PT films if you notice they never use the term clonetrooper. The closest is Obi-Wan in ROTS saying his “clone troops” turned on him. Story I heard was Lucas was just going to call the troops in AOTC stormtroopers but LFL marketing persuaded him to use the term clonetroopers instead. Probably in an attempt to limit the retconning of the then current EU.
Lazypadawan, I think you are right, Lucas probably is just sick of fighting with so called fans. I know this stupid internet hate has really bothered him. Even in ROTS we see the Republic turned Empire officers are normal humans just like how the CIS wasn’t all droids. The Rebels were not all humans either. Let’s just hope they do not try to retcon the midis. The force awakes so somehow no more midis, that would be awlful.
November 29, 2014 at 2:57 pm
What I’ve feared all along is an attempt to retcon Lucas’s story. I’m still wary about that.
November 30, 2014 at 5:27 pm
I don’t think Lucas gave up anything. On 2005 (when ROTS was praised), he was already saying this : “Those particular two guys that you’re talking about — which I know about, which is a very good performance — the idea is that over time, there were new clone strains introduced, and then they even conscripted guys to be Storm Troopers. So it’s not just purely clones: It started out as clones, but then it got diluted over the years as they found out they could shanghai guys [more cheaply] than they could build clones.”
December 1, 2014 at 5:00 pm
Lucas also said ” Boba had a connection to stormtroopers. I sort of built him out of the stormtroopers, and I knew stormstroopers were clones.” Sometimes Lucas does say different things at different times and I think he may have just talked about other clone sources and recruits just to please the EU fans after the backlash. That statement about recruits contradicts his earlier statements about the clones and even what the films imply. But now he supposedly said all stormtroopers are recruits which futher goes against what he stated earlier, including what piccolorjr1138 just quoted and what is on screen in the films. I still can’t find out for sure if Lucas said this outright or if the story group and Disney just cherry picked his notes to fit their agenda.
The idea of stormtroopers being recruits was from the early spinoff Marvel comics and what many fans seem to perfer. Even though the early comics contradicts early LFL souces, and has led to this tug of war. There will probably never be a straight answer what the stormtroopers are. Everyone has flip-flop too much. Maybe with TFA being 30 years later, the Empire has fallen on hard times after ROTJ and can no longer use cloning?
December 1, 2014 at 6:14 pm
Bear in mind that cloning a soldier is a very costly, time-intensive process IU. It takes ten years for a single clone trooper to be birthed, raised and trained before deployment. Resources have to be provided for every clone’s development, and the GAR project undoubtedly utilises vast amounts for the incredible numbers of clones produced.
It’s a cost worth bearing before the Clone Wars due to the benefits to the Sith grand plan of flash militarising the Republic with a ready-made imported armed force. Clone troopers can also be relied upon to execute the finishing blow to the Jedi with Order 66 when necessary. That betrayal is the ultimate purpose of the clone troopers and is worth all the secrecy and resources piled into their development.
With the people of the galaxy largely on the side of the Empire and the purpose of the clones fulfilled following ROTS, it would make sense to reduce the dependency on clones. It would be vastly less costly and, crucially, less time-intensive to raise units of stormtroopers on every Imperial planet, maybe continuing to supplement them with legacy clone production (eg. the embryos seen in AOTC) but eventually creating a self-sustained, easily replenished armed force composed mostly of birth-born recruits.
What Lucas said in 2005 makes sense and doesn’t come across to me like he has been pressured into saying that. It seems like he has put some thought into how his fictional setting would develop.
December 1, 2014 at 11:03 pm
Except according to Biggs in the deleted ANH scene, he warns Luke that the Empire has already begun to nationalize trade and plans to turn everyone into serfs to slave for the Empire. They very well could have easily nationalize cloning which makes the cost argument mute. Even despite that, economics of scale would be in play, and cloning on that large of a scale would mean every clone is fairly inexpensive to produce. A cloned army is identical in size making mass manufacturing of equipment easy. You might have a few clone strains out there, but you can sill easily standardize armor sizes and such which will reduce costs and improve logistics.
With recruits lots of time and resoucers are wasted trying to attract people to join, then weeding out the duds and defects. Then you have to worry about the vets or traitors using the skills you taught them against you. As I said before, you don’t want your serfs to know how to fight. Besides this is the same Empire that can afford to build huge Death Stars and the clones would not be killed off at the same rate as during the clone wars. Even during the civil war as the rebels are much smaller than the CIS was. As already said, clones are made more loyal than any normal born human could be as well as being more disposable which the Sith would like.You can’t look at the price of something in the real world, and then say that it transfers into the Star Wars galaxy either. In the Star Wars galaxy you can sell an old landspeeder and get enough money to by a hyperdrive capable star ship. In real life I couldn’t sell my car and use the money to buy the space shuttle. Just because cloning is expensive in the real world does not mean it is so in Star Wars.
A cloned army is shown to be completely devoted to the cause. Defections, desertions, disobedience and other such unproductive traits are minimized. This is essential if you are going to usurp power, because now the officers have reason not to defect…they are trapped aboard a ship filled with thousands of loyal clone troops.
The political ramifications from citizens dying in a war were still valid until the senate was dissolved in ANH. Therefore it makes more sense to have a cloned army do your bidding while the senate is still in a position to veto your agenda.
I think that a cloned army would be more useful to Palpatine and his politics than an army of conscripts.
I remember back in 2002, there was alot of debate if Stormtroopers were clones since they wear white armor (which is a big hint). Many fans, which you Tarrlok are proving, are very very passionate about Stormtroopers being recruits. They rejected the idea clones would end up being Stormtroopers and predicted ROTS would show the Republic recruiting normal humans. Of course there was no such scene and the OT films do not imply that Stormtroopers are recruits. Then again it would not be the first time the EU and fans have to come up with complex and convoluted explanations while the films visually gives simple and straight forward explanations.
I think that AOTC has a “I am your father”moment, one that we saavy SW fans have ignored. The fact that clonetroopers are stormtroopers. We have had the EU and our own debates for years about this so it does not have the desired impact GL may have wanted it to have but if you just have the movies and NO EU then the impact of the revelation may be stronger. I do think that the Empire does have conscript armies, but I have a feeling that at least the stormtroopers are clones.
“In terms of content,” PabloHelman notes, “this is the only shot in the film that connects the clones to the clone troopers.” The stromtroopers of the classic trilogy had been mistaken for robots by some viewers; here we see unequivocally that the clone troopers are humand soldiers inside their inhuman armor, as we watch the men put on their helmets. “this is a key conent point,” Helman says, “George wanted to make a big deal out of this because of what it establishes.” As susual, Lucas tells his story visually, and this striking shot quickly and effectively conveys its point.
The point it’s referring to is a picture of the Quartermaster Station on Kamino as seen in Episode II. It seems even Pablo was hinting the cole troopers and stormtroopers are one in the same.
December 2, 2014 at 3:44 am
I remain totally unconvinced that Lucas was pressured into changing his mind. His original intention might have been to label the clones as stormtroopers and establish that all stormtroopers are clones, but he might have decided at various points between 2002 and 2012 to deepen the gulf of separation between the generations of trooper for reasons that have nothing to do with pressure exerted from elsewhere. Simply the process of developing the characters and the arc of the clone troopers through ROTS and TCW might have had an effect on his ideas about the clones.
The significance of the clone troopers to the overall story of the Star Wars saga, I believe, goes vastly beyond “they are stormtroopers.” They carry out the rapid militarisation of a dying Republic, laying the foundation for the Imperial war machine. They’re the epoch-defining characters, apparently to the point of being the namesake for the conflict itself, the Clone Wars, much like Napoleon Bonaparte being the namesake for the Napoleonic Wars. Even if they themselves don’t, the institution of the white armour lives on for decades. The stormtroopers are undoubtedly their successors, and so too is the character played by John Boyega. This institutional lineage is far more significant than any hypothetical continuation of their Fett bloodline; this is what can be said to be represented by the scene of them donning their helmets. I don’t get this from the EU but from the films.
And I simply disagree about the economics of cloning. The costs do not disappear with nationalisation; they’re merely borne by the state in their entirety. The Kaminoans very explicitly demand a high price (they respect those with a “big pocketbook” according to Dex) but this is a price worth paying in the context of the Sith grand plan. Not so for the Empire, who can settle for cheaper alternatives while they pile resources into superweapons.
December 2, 2014 at 1:06 pm
Jar-Jar, for example, was originally going to have bigger roles in AOTC and ROTS but due to fan backlash, GL reduced Jar-jar’s part in the later films to appease them. I think it is clear Lucas originally intended stormtroopers to be cloines. That stormtroopers were once the allies of the Jedi before turning on them. He made it clear in AOTC that stormtroopers are supposed to be clones and the term clonetroopers is never uttered in the films, it is only a marketing term. There is a reason Lucas pushed clones so much, even ordering Hasbro to give OT Stormtroopers figuers and TIE pilot figures Jango clone heads, something the Jedi Archive objects to as prequel creep. Again fans objected to stormtroopers being clones due to the EU contradicting the films for decades. Like with Jar-Jar, Lucas later recanted. But such a large filp flop is just strange and unlike him. Again he is probably just tired and figured it isn’t worth fighting.
Nationalizing means the Empire is taking over trade, sweeping away free enterprise and capitalism to become even stronger. The very thing the CIS was fighting against. Money is no longer a problem to the Empire with everyone being serfs. It would not be hard to see the Empire just taking over Kamino and forcing Kaminoans to work for them, which the Empire plans to do with everyone in the galaxy anyway. The Empire isn’t fair or just, they do what they want.
” The stormtroopers are undoubtedly their successors, and so too is the character played by John Boyega. This institutional lineage is far more significant than any hypothetical continuation of their Fett bloodline; this is what can be said to be represented by the scene of them donning their helmets. I don’t get this from the EU but from the films.”
I disagree with that statement, Stormtroopers are the same as clones, that is what I get from the films. They hint at them being clones and nothing to indicate otherwise in the original 6. Everything from head bumping, to identical voices, to simialr white armor, asnd even simialr behavior between stormtroopers and Boba Fett in the OT. What I see from John Boyega is TFA already trying to “correct” prequel mistakes and undoing prequel creep into the OT and ST films. That fans have whined about the clones so much that the film makers are retconning things back before 1999. One of the main complants I hear about the prequels from the hateboys is that the clones and droids are “toy armies” and nothing to care about. That it should have been the Jedi along with a Republic army of recruits fighting the clones, then the recruits become the Empire. Many of the stupid fan re-writes of the prequels feature Jedi fighting the clones instead of the Jedi and clones together against battle droids. Just alot of hateboys and even PT fans dislike the clones.
Lastly, it appears by ROTJ the Emipire was pretty unpopular judging by all the people celebrating its downfall. ANH indicates the Empire is already widely disliked. This would make recruiting become increasing diffcult due to its unpopularity and the Empire would have to rely even more on cloning to produce troops. Forcing people into your army often backfires as such troops fight poorly and often defect. The films have often shown, Palpatine is not a man who downgrades. I can’t see him downgrading his army by using recruits, he wants the best to serve him.
November 28, 2014 at 2:58 pm |
Something else I just noticed in the trailer, all the ships are flying dangerously low to the ground/water. Probably to look cool and flashy as I though the effects shots were much more over the top than in the Lucas films.
December 2, 2014 at 3:49 am
I actually wonder about what sort of effects a sublight spacecraft engine would have in a planet’s atmosphere and that close to the surface.
Would it be safe to be in a boat on the lake while the not-so-new X-Wings fly a few metres above?
November 28, 2014 at 6:37 pm |
I will say this…I was surprised that this emphasized new characters instead of making the whole thing about Luke, Han, Leia, Chewie, et al.. That would’ve been the easiest thing to do. It also would’ve been really easy to refer mostly to the existing films and then throw in a couple of quickie flashes of the “new.” In some ways it was “nostalgia,” but this felt really different too.
November 28, 2014 at 2:14 pm |
@Tarrlok… I would agree with your assessment. I really want to like the new X-Wings, but the new design looks so insubstantial next to the Original design. Almost like a lite Ford “Escort” compared to it’s bigger “Mustang” cousin. Perhaps these new models are eco-friendly haha. It’s hard for me to wrap my brain around the 30-40 time difference between OT and ST, that I wish JJ wouldn’t cling to the overly nostalgic OT technology so heavily. The vehicles from PT to OT evolve well enough. Why isn’t there more of an evolution between OT and ST. Maybe there’s a galaxy wide recession going on?
November 28, 2014 at 2:47 pm |
I feel bad about disliking what is in all likelihood a Chiang design so intensely, but it just pales when compared to his Vulture-class and N-1 starfighters. It looks like it leapt out of a Ralph McQuarrie painting, and while that’s fine for Rebels, I simply expect more originality from a new chapter in the saga that’s set multiple decades after ROTJ. It actually looks out of place next to the fascinating new troopers. I have a suspicion that Chiang or whoever was just ordered from high above to lightly revamp the X-Wing rather than evolve it.
The designers for ROTS and TCW showed what a /distinctive/ chronologically separated variation on the theme of the X-Wing should look like. The ARC-170 looks like it came from the same product line but looks visibly more primitive, as it should, and it has its own character as a durable bruiser that can take punishment. The Z-95 introduced in TCW looks much better than its original EU incarnation, but it still looks like a more primitive direct antecedent of the X-Wing. That is believable.
Then come the 19 years between ROTS and ANH, and we see that the Incom starfighter concept has evolved into the X-Wing. In the 30-40 years between ROTJ and TFA, there just seems to have been relative stagnation.
I haven’t seen any good IU justification for this stagnation yet. Continuing war, hegemony, cold war – they all necessitate evolution of military tech, which evolves very quickly in the setting. Not only has such evolution been seen in real life, but it has been seen in Star Wars. Forget the great change seen in the ROTS-ANH gap; consider the evolution seen in the AOTC-ROTS gap or even the ANH-ROTJ gap. The latter saw the introduction of the A-Wing and B-Wing, each of which had its own character and distinctive profile and wasn’t a rip off of the X- and Y-Wings. It seems like the only actual justification they have for this is OOU nostalgia-tickling.
Sorry for the vent. I just find that the atmosphere in other forums is hostile to anyone who dares to not squee over the “new” X-Wing.
November 28, 2014 at 6:33 pm |
Eco-friendly X-Wings, ha!
November 28, 2014 at 9:38 pm |
I think the X-Wing is literally just an old McQuarrie design. Which is nice and all, but… Why not give Chiang a shot at it? Why not try and make it look like 30 years have passed by?
November 28, 2014 at 2:22 pm |
As for the rest of it…you heard it here first:
I’m going to start a new coinage called “JJapologist’s” and it’s for all the daft, window licking drools that are gullible enough buy into “these movies are sooo superior to the Prequels because JJ used FEELING AND PRACTICAL EFFECTS and so on and so on.” I can jump on the good feelings bandwagon as easily as the next person, but if it comes at the expense of putting down those “other” movies in the Saga, then it’s on like donkey kong!!!
November 28, 2014 at 2:47 pm |
It’s funny how some of the usual “fans” already start insulting those who dare to criticize the teaser only slightly as “frustrated PT fans” or whatever.
Although there is a tad too much nostalgia in the teaser and I’ll never like JJ’s flashy-shaky style, I was still somehow positively surprised. Speaks volumes about my (very, very low) expectations for this movie.
November 28, 2014 at 3:19 pm |
I like that term.
November 28, 2014 at 5:27 pm |
I honestly do not know what to think.
I seriously hope that this isn’t an Empire vs Rebels movie ( otherwise I simply won’t bother visiting my local movie theater). A leaked title from Jedi Bibliotheck revealed that the title for an upcoming book was to be Fall of the Empire / Rise of the Rebellion, so who I’m guessing that this will be a New Republic/ Imperial Remnant thing. Still, it does leave to question how this all fits with George’s ideas, and some explanation as to why they made those design choices.
We’ll have to wait and see I guess.
November 28, 2014 at 6:08 pm |
I guess I picked the right weekend to start my editorials back up.
November 28, 2014 at 11:02 pm |
I liked the Teaser Trailer I thought it was awesome!!! And keep in mind a full Theatrical Trailer will be out next year during Star Wars Celebration.
November 29, 2014 at 3:09 am |
I think I have to agree with the (longer) analysis by LP posted on her Holocron blog. I hope that the movie does not conflict with the established mythology, and that the trailer felt quite random. I enjoyed the music and the sound effects.
Funny enough, the stormtroopers landing on some planet reminded me of the arrival of the clonetroopers in AotC and the landings of the troopers in “The Clone Wars”. The camera spinning around the Falcon reminded me of the opening of RotS. 🙂
What I found interesting: I am a defender of the special effects in the prequels, and the clone troopers being completely CGI did not bug me at all – I rather found it great. However, I found it even better that they are played by people in costumes in this teaser – I do not know why, it just looks more realistic and “better” to me. Again, I am also surprised by this impression.
What I found interesting: space ships having a battle in the atmosphere of a planet or better close to the ground… we did not see this in any of the other episodes, did we?
As for the X-wings and the Falcon: well, the Falcon is the Falcon, so it’s no wonder it is still flying around in this movie (never been a huge fan of the spaceship, believe it or not – I am more interested in Star Destroyers or Jedi Starfighters). The X-wings… I hope there will be much more ships with a new design in this movie. Even during the civil war, the Rebellion managed to develop the B- and A-wing in the four years between ANH and RotJ. Now, it might even make sense in-universe that the X-wing design is still used – the B52 bomber and the Boeing 747 have a decade-old design, which has of course been slightly adapted and modernized, but is still more or less the same. I just hope that the X-wings are not part of the movie just for nostalgia’s sake.
That said, I already had to leave a comment on some blog article where the author started with the usual “this teaser lets you forget the prequels”… Oh my…
November 29, 2014 at 3:10 am |
I of course did not mean “I hope… that the trailer felt quite random.” I meant “I also think that the trailer felt quite random.”
November 29, 2014 at 8:55 am |
Well, we can already say that the prequel trilogy was visually much more ambitious. But it’s still nice looking, though. I like this teaser.
November 29, 2014 at 2:35 pm |
Anyone else notice the new Stormtroopers had ammo counter displays on their blasters like the space marine’s pulse rifles in Aliens? Guess JJ wants them to be badass.
November 30, 2014 at 8:19 am |
LP, you need to address this article about the racist reaction to seeing John Boyega (an actor who happens to also be black) playing a stormtrooper in TFA. http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2014/11/of-course-there-are-black-stormtroopers-in-star-wars/383259/ Of course, the “writer,” in pointing out the racism of those complaining about a black stromtrooper, commits her own racism during and obligatory anti-PT “no one asked for your opinion, honey” screed. Some samples: “(Spoiler alert: Don’t watch the prequels.)” Eff-you, how about if you don’t like them you don’t have to watch them. “The Star Wars films themselves commit racism, specifically the prequels, which seem to mock Jews and Asians with their depiction of two alien races (galactic bankers and traders, of course). Which is to say nothing of Jar Jar Binks, a walking crime against black Caribbeans.” No, really, someone got paid to write that crap.
November 30, 2014 at 9:55 am |
I’m of Asian ethnicity myself, and the Neimoidians didn’t strike me as “Asian.” They’re aliens, and I don’t know how people can say they’re supposed to be Asian just because they work in business.
Neither does Jar Jar remind me of black people.
Society and entertainment still has lots of problems with its portrayals of Asians (asexual nerds) and Blacks (gangsters), but neither of those stereotypes resemble what we saw in the prequels.
And bashing on the prequels in an article like this just seems unprofessional to me. This isn’t a movie review, and if it is then it’s more than a decade late. If you want to talk about racist online reactions to the Episode VII teaser, then talk about that. Don’t go off on an unneeded tangent to bash on another movie.
November 30, 2014 at 10:00 am
If they actually took a minute to think about Lucas, they would remember that he used Asian culture and film as influences for a lot of things in Star Wars. That he made a long term passion project out of his desire to tell a story about Black aviators in WW2.
Once again, the article writer’s personal dislike for the prequels overshadows everything else.
November 30, 2014 at 11:32 am
Another person of Asian descent here. I simply can’t place what the Neimoidian accent would be on Earth.
I’ve pretty much sworn off reading or watching any non-specialist media coverage of Star Wars because they’ll inevitably throw in a dig at the PT just to seem relevant.
November 30, 2014 at 12:10 pm
It’s a French accent in the German dub. 😀
November 30, 2014 at 12:53 pm
@Tarrlok The media coverage is indeed ridiculous. On The Hollywood Reporter, they literally just dug up their twelve-year-old review of AOTC and posted it again to renew the bashing for no discernible reason. This review is now also linked to on the Yahoo front page (which has gotten embarassingly geeky with its choice of headlines lately, and I say that as a big SW and comic geek).
Funny thing is that the critical reviews for AOTC, while being quite mixed, lean positive according to the film’s Rotten Tomatoes score. Same with TPM. Those are facts that are continually ignored according to the internet narrative that these films are universally hated disasters.
But the critics who actually liked those movies aren’t rehashing their positivity. They liked the movies and then moved on with their jobs and their lives, just like most fans did.
Seems to me that it’s the hateful and cynical people who continually make themselves heard on the internet. There’s something not quite right about people not being able to let go of a few movies even after more than a decade has passed.
November 30, 2014 at 1:00 pm
Tall aliens with rather big heads and stocky frame always remind me of Asians….
George is best friend with one of the most popular jewish people (Steven Spielberg) on earth and the film’s main actress (Natalie Portman) has a jewish background…I’m sure they would have objected to rasicm towards Jews in TPM and asked George to change something.
November 30, 2014 at 2:49 pm
Aside from that, both Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher have Jewish roots, so if Lucas is a raging anti-Semite, he has a weird way of showing it. Ditto for accusations of racism. Has anyone noticed who the current Mrs. Lucas is?
November 30, 2014 at 3:07 pm
Let’s also remember that Lucas originally wanted Toshiro Mifune to play Obi-Wan as homage to Akira Kurosawa but he turned it down because he thought playing in a sci-fi role was beneath him. Oh Toshiro, how could you?
November 30, 2014 at 1:19 pm |
You can send an e-mail to the author and set him straight.
November 30, 2014 at 2:44 pm |
That’s what you get for reading the Atlantic ;). Just kidding.
The problem is, and this is what I’ve been trying to fight for the past however many years, it’s become “conventional wisdom” that the prequels are bad, terrible, flops, racist etc. especially among members of the chattering class who don’t really know a whole lot about Star Wars. That includes a lot of so-called Geek Opinion Leaders. And I still put a huge amount of blame on Lucasfilm for letting it happen. Would they have taken that kind of attack on their precious OT for years on end? I think not.
November 30, 2014 at 5:33 pm |
It seems J.J. Abrams gave life to old TPM concepts from Doug Chiang and Iain McCaig 😀
November 30, 2014 at 9:44 pm |
McCaig and Chiang are real reasons to hope this movie won’t be a total OT fanwank. Maybe the only reasons.
December 1, 2014 at 11:08 pm |
That is cool.
December 1, 2014 at 6:51 pm |
Something I just thought of, but is a really remote possibility– I know that the main shooting is done, but is there going to be any additional stuff? In the past, SW films have always had main shooting, and then pick-ups shot at Elstree, no matter where the main production was (like Ep II and III in Australia). Also remember the pick-ups that Lucas himself did for “Red Tails”. I know it’s pointless to hope that Lucas might be involved in hypothetical pick-ups for Ep. VII, but… what other recourse do we have?
December 8, 2014 at 9:33 pm |
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