Challenging “Plot Holes”

The latest installment of Power To The Prequels challenges the idea that the Star Wars films have plot holes (PT and OT):

You want to hear a secret? Come closer, I have good news. There are no such things as Star Wars plot holes.

I realize that you’ve probably heard otherwise. There’s a contingency of the fan community that delights in pointing out logical inconsistencies or continuity errors to disparage beloved films. The “plot hole” accusation is the most prevalent, and the reason why is simple. Logic speaks to an objective truth, and there is this illusion that when talking about art, we can categorize it, rank it, attribute a particular quality number to it… with decimal points no less!

The actual truth is that all art is subjective. That’s the point of it. You can’t measure feelings. You can’t empirically test emotional resonance. And what affects one person will have no effect on another. Which is probably why one man’s Film-Breaking Plot Hole is another’s “eh, it didn’t bother me.”


25 Responses to “Challenging “Plot Holes””

  1. Bayonne VeterinaryMedical Says:

    Funny, many movies these days will either get praised or criticized for plot holes and either anticipate or hope they get resolved in future films, case in point TFA to TLJ and BvS to Justice League.

  2. lovelucas Says:

    Covers areas I’ve been trying to explain to “reasonable” people for a long time but they didn’t want to hear it, especially about those midichlorians. They bitched, whined and used those midichlorians as another reason to hate George and the prequels and the logic was there all the time….they don’t detract from the wonder of the Force….In some respects they are a means to an end – to determine the depth of Force sensitivity each person has and everyone has some of it. I loved this part and that George chose to create a word very close to a very real fact in science: mitochondria

    • andywylde77 Says:

      Exactly! The whole Midichlorian debacle was just something made out of nothing. If the idiots that whined about it payed attention they would have known this. A high midi count doesn’t give anyone special abilities but it just means a higher potential through training.

      If Midi’s were the force themselves or gave special powers and abilities, then the council would have took Anakin in when they first met him. But Anakin had such a high count of them but the Midi’sin and of themselves didn’t just grant him all his abilities with no training. Anakin had to go through trials and tribulations just as any other Jedi in the series.

      But what gets me is that these same people are OK with Rey just pulling force abilities with no training or knowledge of the force. But they whine about Mid’s which are just living organisms that reside in someone’s cells.

      So yeah there is/was too much whining about them and it really is unwarranted to say the least. I look at my 5 senses and think of how amazing they are at the same time there is medical and scientific explanations for them. Does it take away from the wonder of them? No it doesn’t.

      It is like watching a magician do a trick. It looks amazing but you know it is being done by manipulation and it isn’t just some real deal magic that can’t be explained. So all these people crying about the force being “demystified” are just whining for the sake of it. I wonder if these same clowns got all butt hurt when they found out that the Easter Bunny and Tooth Fairy weren’t real? Because it is usually the first generation crowd that whines the most on this subject.

      • LordCthulhu13 Says:

        The funny thing is, Lucas created Midi-chlorians back in the 70’s and wanted to put them in the original film. He didn’t due to time constraints. Even though they didn’t appear in the movie itself, he always considered them part of the lore.

      • andywylde77 Says:

        Yeah I always heard that about them. Even though they were introduced in the PT still never effected the “mysticism” of the force like the whiners made it out to be. The force still worked the same with or without the mention of the Midi’s.

        So the funny part is that Midi’s although not mentioned in the OT were still there the whole time and it never made a difference.

    • LG Says:

      Those midichlorians. I will never get the hate for them.

  3. Moose Says:

    The bit in Rogue One about the exhaust port being a designed flaw (not quite a “one in a million” shot anymore, huh?), along with how they made Luke look/act at the end of Ep. VII and in the new preview, has made me look at these post-Lucas films as just a curiosity. I enjoy the Disney movies best when they focus on their new characters and leave George’s old folks out of it.

  4. ladylavinia1932 Says:

    I have been able to spot what I believe to be plot holes in just about every movie I have seen – including all those in the SW franchise. Whether I love, like or dislike a movie, I have pretty much encounted a plot hole or more.

  5. Keith Palmer Says:

    Seeing “plot holes” proclaimed with what seems a smug “this settles that” air aggravates me, and I usually try to come up with clever explanations if only to hold off worries. At the same time, I can wonder if those proclamations spring from more gut-level negative reactions…

    One thing that is coming to mind is a comment from George Lucas (I believe from the recent Turner Classic Movies documentary featuring him) that he hadn’t supposed some people would watch Star Wars as many times as they do.

  6. andywylde77 Says:

    Something that really chaps my ass about the all the whining over the years about Midichlorians is that NOW they are OK. Because it is being used as one of many excuses for why Rey’s sudden use and control of the force without even knowing what it really was.

    I have seen people say that she was able to pull that off because she has a high Midi count. Well if these same people payed attention, a high midi count still requires the individual to go through training. Anakin had to train even though his count was sky high.

    But this is just the tactics of desperate people. Everything people whined about Anakin doing have no problem using those same things for Rey. I have debated this topic many times on many different forums. I stick with the belief that Rey is untrained, as Kylo Ren even stated in the film. And she was never a student of Luke nor part of any Jedi academy. The film shows her being dropped off on Jakku at the age of anywhere from 5-7 years old. And I feel that 7 years old is pushing it. So if Luke was using the methods of the old Jedi order and taking in infants and training them when they are able to speak, walk and comprehend said training, then Rey couldn’t have received any kind of pertinent training what so ever. Not with what the movie showcased with her being abandoned.

    But my point is to those people, are Midi’s a good thing or bad thing? I have seen more ridiculous excuses for Rey that if this was any character in the PT they would have never received the same courtesy. They say “Midi’s ruined the force!” But seem to be OK with someone not even knowing what the force was being able to use it to great effect. My questions are.

    What exactly did Midi’s do or detract form? What made them so bad that it makes one think it “ruined” the force?

    These questions are never answered. Or at least answered sufficiently enough to be taken serious. The only answer I see mostly is that they “demystified” the force. I personally don’t see how that is remotely possible. Because Luke like all the other Jedi before him still had to train and gain knowledge of the force no matter how high/low their Midi count was.

    But now they want to apply the concept for all of Rey’s special talents and abilities. It either applies to all or to none. I learned it is just all whining for the sake of whining. Just like all the whining about the PT being all about politics. And some even make the claims that the entire PT was about tax disputes and negotiations. Huh? It amazes me how some people claim to hate the PT yet don’t really understand what is going on in them?

    TPM came out in 1999 and even to this very day there are people who say it sucks because the 2 Jedi should have testified before the Senate about the invasion of Naboo. But I guess the fact that the Jedi being SECRETLY dispatched went over their heads. How can the Jedi testify to something they were never supposed to be a part of to begin with? This is just one of many examples of people hating something they don’t understand. This is a reason why I think TFA was made the way it was. Because obviously there are folks out there that can only comprehend good guys fight bad guys. Anything more than that would cause mass confusion I guess?

    • lovelucas Says:

      ^^love what your’re saying and how you’re saying. No doubt about the difference in acceptance of everything prequel vs everything JJ. And you could smell it.

      • andywylde77 Says:

        Thanks! Yeah it kills me because I had to live through years of whining about certain things and when someone else comes along and makes a new SW film, the same whiners will then turn and use all the concepts they whined about and apply them to characters like it was never a problem.

        It seems to me that according to the new people in charge, some fans think they can do no wrong. Well I spent many of hours setting those people straight with the truth and facts. And those fans I can tell don’t like to hear it. As a wise man once said,

        “The facts don’t care about your feelings!”

        Like the fact that TFA was a rehash. It was and there are some people in serious denial to this fact. Even JJ came out and said it was a rehash. He played it diplomatically of course. Like it was to bring SW “back to its roots” Whatever that means. Or it was done to bring back jaded fans who were burned, let down, or disappointed by the PT.

        What I don’t get is why Disney and Lucasfilm reps are catering to cry babies? I mean it’s like LFL is more concerned with the timid feelings and worthless opinions of whiny fans and letting that supersede putting out original films with original stories?

        Screw those clowns! Why are they being catered to specifically? They are not the only SW fans in the mix here. I believe when it comes to film making, no fans should be catered to. Story and characters first. Everything else is secondary. I mean nothing wrong with some fan service, but in this specific case they are going way overboard to the wrong people. It almost feels as if it is the whiny jaded fans are dictating what the future of SW should be and Disney and LFL are just carrying out these demands.

        All I know is that this new era of SW got off on the wrong foot and their are serious issues from within. Even if they put out some decent stuff, I feel negative presence that surrounds it.

    • senatorbinks27 Says:

      One of my biggest pet peeves is when people say “Movie X never explains Y” when Y was addressed in the first five minutes had you been actually paying attention. I sée it happen with a lot of movies I love.

      • andywylde77 Says:

        Yep, you understand perfectly what the problem is with most individuals when it comes to watching movies. I said it before and I will say it again, it seems that in the SW fandom a huge chunk of the audience can’t or won’t see past good guy vs. bad guy and “splosion’s” and “Pew-Pew” laser fights! A mention of tax disputes in the opening crawl and that is just too much for for their feeble minds to comprehend. Till this very day there are limitless debates, although those “debates” are just whining in disguise. And I use the the term debates as loosely as possible because there is no debates on the subject of what the whole tax negotiations in TPM. But back to my point is that even still today there are people who can’t or just won’t understand what all that was about. I mean the whole issue of the tax dispute was over as soon as the TF landed and took over the Naboo. The tax dispute was no longer an issue for the characters in the plot. The invasion was the priority. Yet this still stumps people even over a decade later.

        So basically a small mention of a tax dispute among member planets of the Republic=the PT being all about politics.Yeah some people are really just not very nimble minded.

  7. davidbreslin101 Says:

    Sometimes, too, one man’s plot hole is the same man’s failure to get it. AotC is the supreme example of this. If you go into the film primed to be hostile (as I can testify from my own first ever viewing, sadly) it’s a bit of a head-scratcher. You leave saying, “well, that, that and that didn’t make sense to me, so they must be plot-holes.”

    Go in with an open mind, and there’s still plenty of puzzles. You try to work it out, though. Suddenly, it springs into focus just how brilliantly, scarily prepared Palpatine is. He’s engineered this whole situation where he just cannot lose. He doesn’t care if Padme is murdered or not, or who wins on Geonosis- whatever the outcome of each move in the game, he’s poised to profit.

    • lovelucas Says:

      Palps….the great magician with uncommon patience. He helped things along with all those distractions. Mace even fell into it…..still wouldn’t believe Anakin even as he tried to warn everyone about the dude the Jedi said he was too close to….

  8. Jacobesico Says:

    Well I thought that George tied up all potential “plot holes” with Revenge of The Sith.

    • joe Says:

      except for the sifo-dyas thing which was explored on the clone wars which may confuse people because for many star wars is just the movies not everyone reads the comics novels plays the video games and/or watch the shows do you tell someone to watch a show or read a book comic or play the video games to get the answers?

      • senatorbinks27 Says:

        I’ll admit I didn’t like how Clone Wars resolved the Sifo-Dyas thing in season 6 because it felt to me that the Jedi now had too much information NOT to prevent 66 from happening.

        I always felt it didn’t need “resolving” anyway – there was enough to infer what happened without having to be explicit.

      • joe Says:

        there’s also the whle kamino thing the films never said who erased it from the jedi archives yes it was dooku but again not everyone watches the stuff beyond the movies i’m not nitpicking it’s just that they should have mentioned in episode 3 who erased kamino from the archives some would say it’s a plot hole hope i wasn’t harsh may the force be with you

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