Good for Mark. A couple points. First, Mark confirms what we PT fans always suspected: that the producers of “The People Vs. George Lucas” were making a GL hit piece from the beginning. They never intended to make an even-handed examination of the PT or George’s decision-making, and any weak praise they gave in the film (and it WAS weak) was just window-dressing to make themselves appear neutral. because they’re cowards. So, Lucasfilm, please take note. The “experts” and self-declared fan representatives that appeared and participated in that “film” should have no role in Celebrations or any other official Lucasfilm PR. Period. Second, I’ll be the first to say I suspect Mark’s willingness to defend the PT has a specific motivation (and not an evil one). I think the rumors about Hayden appearing in The Last Jedi may be true and this is just Disney and Lucasfilm’s first trial balloon to see if they can warm the fans to the idea of Hayden coming back. There is absolutely going to be blowback from the OriginalTrilogy.com trolls and I bet Disney wants to prepare fans without coming right out and ruining the surprise. You heard it here first.
Interesting theory about the trial balloon. Maybe. However his defense was for the blatantly obvious things that any person could agree with aside from the most insane trolls. It’s not like he defended the PT dramatic content. I do agree that Disney gets heartburn at anything associated with the PT. Cool post!
Yes, but in my experience there’s almost always a reason when people attached to a production begin talking along a certain line. Studios and production companies are very careful about messaging. It’s not an accident, for example, that Mark and everyone else attached to TFA started talking about “practical effects” and the glory of shooting “on film.” It’s likewise not an accident that no one attached to Rogue One talked about the fact that the movie WASN’T shot on film and instead gushed about it’s digital effects (like Tarkin, Leia, and K2). Trust me, they have looooong meetings about what they want people to say and not say about the films. And Mark is a pro. He knows the fans and he knows who’s buttering his bread. If I’m right, we’ll see more of this over the course of the year leading up to TLJ. If they start talking more about Anakin and defending Hayden’s acting, or you see references to Anakin popping up in Rebels, you can bet it’s because he’s in the film. To quote Qui-Gon, “Nothing happens by accident.”
@Hunk a Junk: I think you’re right, but it would be a bad business decision to make actors defend a view that they don’t really support. Harrison Ford is not the biggest Star Wars fan around, so it would not be credible to ask him to act like he is one. A non-genuine image doesn’t work for celebrities, one has to work with what is already there, so to speak. So I think that Hamill had, at the very least, a lot of admiration for Lucas, “creator of a modern myth”.
Re: Anakin Skywalker, Disney actually put an interesting spin on Vader in Rogue One. When you look at the OT films, Vader appears to be obsessed with success and efficiency. If an officer fails, he kills the officer. An efficient one like General Veers gets treated with respect. Piett even gets a glimpse of fatherly affection in my subjective view. But in Rogue One, Vader appears to have disdain for ambition and all officers. His attitude towards the people in charge actually appears more like that of Anakin than that of the ep. IV-VI Darth Vader.
That’s really odd. One effect it has is that we are reminded of Anakin. And maybe that was the intent. I don’t know about you (though I can hazard a guess) but honestly: the quick, temperamental, disdainful, Darth Vader of Rogue One behaves like Anakin in a black suit who wants to be away from politics, hiding in Mustafar to ponder what was done to him in the past. It’s not like the Darth Vader of A New Hope, who was there among the officers at the front, giving orders to anyone like a wild card commander. Chronologically, he should have acted like the latter but it’s possible that the creators wanted to remind us that Anakin is still in there. Hanging on to dear life.
That’s an interesting interpretation of Vader in Rogue One, but I’m afraid I’m cautious when it comes to supposing things like that “were part of the intent”; in Star Wars itself as opposed to The Empire Strikes Back, when Vader starts choking Admiral Motti it doesn’t seem to be just a matter of “efficiency.” Still, I’ve long allowed my own personal interpretations to suppose Vader was “revitalized” between Star Wars and TESB by the hunt for Luke Skywalker (although my own interpretation has also been intrigued by suggestions Vader wasn’t sure this “Skywalker” really was his son until he was mask-to-face with him), so I’d be willing to suppose things might have become a bit different for him just between Rogue One and Star Wars.
According to the films, Obi-Wan and Yoda believed that Anakin’s turn to the Dark Side rendered him dead — at least in a metaphysical sense. In other words, as far as they knew, once you go black you never go back. 😉 That was why Obi-Wan insisted Luke had to destroy Vader and Luke faced the conflict of having to kill his own father. Vader in RO and ANH believed his wife and child (not twins) were dead, so the Vader in RO was exactly what Obi-Wan said he was: “More machine than man, twisted and evil.” He was a monster. What Obi-Wan and Yoda don’t know is that something changed inside Vader the moment he sensed a rebel unusually strong in the Force during the Death Star battle. Between ANH and TESB, Vader clearly did some checking and discovered this rebel was a “Skywalker” and he sensed it was his son. The fact that he kept this news from Palpatine (who figured it out anyway) shows that something unusual is going on inside Vader’s head. Based on what Luke senses in ROTJ, we know that there is still “good” (Anakin) locked away inside Vader. The moment Vader learns about his son, his actions indicate a battle is being waged inside him between the good side (Anakin) and the Dark Side (Vader). The monster has a heart — faint though it may be. By the time Luke meets Vader on Endor, the battle is so pronounced that Luke hopes that he can avoid killing his father and turn him back to the good side — something that’s impossible, according to Obi-Wan and Yoda. It’s because of Luke that Anakin’s good spirit can overwhelm and destroy the evil Vader spirit that had “consumed” him. When Anakin returns, Vader is destroyed and the prophecy is fulfilled when both Vader and Palpatine are killed. Balance has been restored (the Sith being a cancer on the Force that had thrown it out of balance years earlier).
I really hope that Hayden won´t be in TLJ. I can already hear the hateboys claiming that his acting in episode 8 were “so much better”, and further proof of Lucas “shitty dialogue and directing”, and so forth.
Plus, I would generally prefer Disney to stay away from the timeline of the Lucas movies. Just do your own thing, continue the rebooting of the OT (possibly even the prequels as well), and give us some origin stories about the “Knights of Ren” .. or Captain Phasma .. or whatever.
But don´t further fumble around with the timeline of the six original movies. You don´t understand Lucas´ Star Wars, so keep your hands off it, already!
It’s a Star Wars Infinities era drawing heavily on the OT era is how i see it.
As some one else posted, the second hand memories approach thing is making it abit bizarre & extreme in some ways, at least to me & isn’t my sort of thing.
I’d prefer it if the TFAs & TLJ were still the ST but not neccessarily episodes 7 & 8 to GL’s 6. If it was more straight out, this is the Disney era of Star Wars, how we see it.
The nostalga/retconing thing takes my interest away from what the infinities approach may have to offer & follow. For other people though, that’s not a problem. The new era of SW is a new way to be a Star Wars fan, & it’s alot more territorial about it. I’m actually really neutral about it. I like PT movie era derived sw saga fandom stuff ALOT. I don’t need to like or dis-like the ST & it’s era for that to be the case – & i’m not sure i have the room for another fandom like that in my life anyhow.
So an example of a ST era prequel infinities movie, that is not retconing that i wouldn’t be able to resist:
A remake of ‘The Wild Bunch’ after RotS, with either Hamil or S Jackson as a type of Pike, leader of a bunch of Jedi turned bitter merceneries for hire after order 66, who do a job on a planet, & then get involved in taking on a criminal cartel oppressing the locals. Instead of horses, with speeder bikes, in relation to the remake. If M Hamil was the Pike character, he would be called Jedi Master Kram. S Jackson’s name would be Jedi Master Ud-niw.
So a new fun type of SWs movie with some nostalgia & something new, but without the baggage of cannon and star wars inquisition issues.
Good for Mark. The way Jake Lloyd was ripped was unbelievable. To this day I still love his performance…a couple rough lines but totally believable with all the necessary foundation for Anakin’s growth.
Really love Jake Lloyds performance. I think part of the backlash is precisely because it’s so good. He talks and acts like a 9 year old children and I think the hate boys living in their moms basement don’t like children, I’ve met a lot of them, believe me.
..spot on! Form my observation, these haters don’t want anything to do with children or childish things. It’s not just “wanting things to be tough like Terminator”, but also how having a child in an entertainment product (Star Wars, Superhero, Fantasy) is crossing their line of being cool and edgy. One example includes DC/Batman worshi… p.. fans, who despise Robin. Heck, even prerks at Warner Bros refuse to have him in a live-action film (and his last theatrical live-action appearance was 20 years ago, though Chris O’Donnol was a bit older than 12 when playing the character in “Batman Forever” and “Batman & Robin”). Unless I’m wrong, there may have also been a much minor backlash with the kid character in “Iron Man 3”. Basically GeekCulture dislikes anything related to young youth or kiddie matters.
One thing that people don’t really understand about Jake Lloyd is that he was no Haley Joel Osment or Macaulay Culkin. He just wasn’t very endearing, even though he definitely had charisma. So the critique I usually hear is that he wasn’t a very nice boy. Maybe that was the point. Just think about how he uses his mom’s words about helping others to further his own agenda. That’s really good child acting, I think, but certainly not cute.
I applaud Mark big time for his remarks on that video. He does truly appreciate and care for what Lucas created and did. He has always been a fan of George. And Mark is right about how Jake was treated by the “fans” especially being a 10 year old at the time. It was mostly adults too that were participating in the bashing of the poor kid. Those people that did that are disgusting individuals and would probably be pissed off if that was their 10 year old being subject to the same treatment.
But Mark is also a true fan of SW in general. He acknowledges what this franchise did for him and Lucas was a big part of that too. It sucks that this fan base is made up of a lot of self entitled idiots that think the SW universe was made to revolve around their head canon. So they bash anything and anyone that doesn’t live up to the expectations they built up in their heads over the years. Hence why we ended up getting ANH rehash for episode 7. SW was made to expand the imagination and explore new and different things. Apparently for some it is just made to “remind” people of what already exists.
But as the morons say, “they had to rehash the OT to re-introduce SW to fans burned by the PT and show a new generation what made SW great!”
It really irks me how these clowns always have to use the “new generation” as a reason for rehashing the OT. LFL and Disney are just peddling second hand memories and hand me down experiences to the new generation for the sake of jaded fans. The new generation are the ones getting ripped off along with people that care for the STORY and LORE of SW. I really hope episode 8 takes a really new and unique route. Because not all fans just want nostalgia call backs and reminders in every new SW film.
I agree that the bashing of kid actors is uncalled for. I think Lloyd did a good job. Also, I don’t hold kid actors to as high a standard as adults, because they’re still learning their craft. They should be encouraged to keep practicing and getting even better, not bashed for not giving the performance a certain vocal sub-section of the fandom wanted.
I also dislike the ‘rehash to appeal to next generation’ argument. For me, and for a lot of other people, Star Wars is about innovation and pushing the boundaries. Its about showing you something new and exciting. When its a rehash–that’s not nearly as interesting. And if the story just references itself, it feels too . . . small. One of the strengths of Star Wars is the fact that it draws from many different types of story outside itself to make it what it is. The Force Awakens didn’t really do that, it mainly seemed to draw from other stories in its own canon. (Rogue One did draw on outside sources, which is one of the things that was good about it.)
I’ve been rather disappointed in the ST, and I don’t have high hopes for TLJ.
Yeah I agree here. It was pretty disgusting how bad Jake was treated by fans who had some personal idealized version of Anakin built up in there head. Some even say how that Anakin should have started out at 19 like Luke did. Some fans really are too full of themselves and think that the story teller is supposed to have his own story revolve around their head canon.
I am at odds about the ST at this point. TFA was a real let down to me. Rogue One was great, but it wasn’t really an episodic film which is the most important aspect of SW to me. Episode 8 will be the tell tale sign to me and will let me know if SW is worth my time. If they go with unoriginal content and rehashing again I will pretty much just give up and label SW a lost cause. Nostalgia can be fine and dandy, but it really needs to be done in small doses and not just blatantly all over the place. TFA was unfortunately like that. But a lot of people seem to be OK with TFA being a rehash of ANH. And that makes me sad. If they can let it go for TFA, then I am sure they will let it slide for the next 2 episodes. If this does happen I am sure there will be people making excuses as to why a rehash was necessary.
I have a strong feeling that TLJ will be a rehash of TESB and that will actually be a selling point of the new film. I can see people saying, “well TESB is the best of the SW movies so it was a smart move to rehash that particular one”
Abrams gushes that Harrison Ford is really Han Solo in the flesh (tough, gruff, no-nonsense, knows how to fly). That is all well and good, but you can see and hear Luke Skywalker in Mark Hamill and it makes me smile.
The panning of the acting in the OT never really made much sense either, & Mark’s Luke had a signature range that embodied it’s hero’s journey, i thought he was good in ‘the big red one’ too.
GL’s achille’s heel was editing though, i’m sure he was a fantastic editor, but in the contect of very complicated PTs productions where he was shouldering all the different elements into cohesion himself singularly, i think he was an average editor to his own material.
From what i know of TESB, it was having major problems in this area, & then Irving Kerschner kinda stepped in & said let’s do this, this, this, this type thing instead, & it came together superbly. Then RoTJ had the very under-rated Richard Marquand, when it came to giving an extra layer of intimate tone & character to the story, as the next step to the more complicated plot that TESB had introduced.
The PTs were designed at the foundation level with a plot emphasis, GL was purposely pushing the style/genre of these type of movies into that direction in a new way. The extra complication that this bought into the processes of the movie in the editing room, ended up filtering out the more immediate dramatic elements of continuity to the overall story/plot in episodes 2 & 3 progressively more and more. There are lots of examples to that.
TPM on the other hand, has that immediate plot dramatic continuity, as a film it’s abit rusty in other ways, but if you read the screenplay or graphic novel, it’s the best reflection out of the three to those. How much of a factor the different editor Paul Martin Smith was to that i don’t know, but if i was doing an extended edition, i’d take a punt on him to bring that element back into the other two episodes.
The PT’s are an artistic success, & a major all time landmark in my fav. Genre of cinema as well as GL’s series, but i do have abit of sympathy that dramatically, which is probably more heightened from an actor’s perspective, they are not relatively perfectly harmonious to the whole if one wants to go there.
The art of AotCs hardcopy is a fantastic book, in terms of paintings, mood & cohesion with final film, it may be the best PT art book, but it also has a fantastic Full script which seems to be an iteration of the shooting script and a few post initial changes of additionally shot stuff, yet for the most part remaining intact before it’s heavy editorial process had happened.
AotCs is my fav pt but i put it alongside ANH in terms of overall cinematic quality, (i rate RotS & tESB as the equally best series films), my fan UE would make it the best SWs film to me. In an exercise of fun wishful PT fandom thinking, this following version is the version i would release in 3D at the movie theatres, along with a 3D TPM with with some Gungan & Space end battle footage cut down to help compensate for AotCs UE longer length, & RoTS just released in 3D as is. And the deal would be, if you want to watch one, you have to buy tickets for all 3. So at the end of it, people would have go, you know what, AotCs is the best Star Wars movie, ha ha!
That’s not to say i don’t think RotS could be the clear best Star Wars movie, but i would use the money made from the theatrical 3d releases to then do an ultimate edition of RotS 3d, that is only made available in the 3D blueray PT UE pack release except for a perhaps extremely limited & exclusive quick movie run, hehe.
But the script that is in it’s art book, is for the most part to me, really really good as i see it (& a great read along with it’s intermittent pictures to go with it), and unless otherwise stated in changes, i would keep all the scenes exactly as they are
So the following is my tweaks, changes & occasional comments to that UEd. fanboi version of AotCs as per it’s art book’s script.
Sc 015 – This is entirely new scene. Is a very important quick scene about the Prophecy. I would also reinsert the initial shooting script (ss) line of Yoda’s ‘only going through the dark side can we see the future’.
Sc 037 – delete Mace’s ‘they boy has exceptional skills’
– shorten Obi’s reply to Yoda to just ‘but he still has much to learn Master’.
– after Yoda, shorten Mace to ‘remember, Obi-wan, if the Prophecy is true..’
– then Obi cutting into Mace saying ‘If he follows the right path’.
After sc 038 (the one of Anakin with Padme packing), i’d put in sc 043, Obi in Jedi Temple analysis
– it’s a cool scene, has echoes to Massa Polis in RotS, & completes rhythm of Obi & Anakin seperation after council assignments till sc 040 meet up on the freighter docks with Padme & Dorme –
Sc 047 Jocasta Nu ( just want to comment really starting to build into the Dooku enigma drama of film)
Sc 049 – I’d just show R2 getting the meal, Anakin waking from his nightmare, him joing Padme for their food, & starting the dialogue at point with Padme saying ‘we just went to lightspeed a while ago’, & rest of scene playing out.
Sc 052 – Keep it cut just like movie (is star freighter landing in Theed port)
After sc. 053 (Anakin & Padme first walking in Naboo), skip to sc 056 for the full sequence of Padme family and home scenes (except have cutted outside home arrival scene 055)
After sc 060, Padme bedroom scene, Naboo Palace Throne wth Anakin’s hotheadedness & frustration Room sc 054 – except cut final Queen Jamilla line about Padme’s family.
Then the scene in the Dvd of Obi confiding in Mace his worries about his training of Anakin, doubts about the assignment situation, prophecy, & asking about a potential war, with Mace’s answer to that about Yoda probing the darkside & is a dangerous process – which Mace ends up doing in heat of moments with both Jango, & in RotS, with the Emperor.
– Then back to scene 061 of Obi coming out of hyperspace.
sc 075 – (ss) Reinserting Jango saying prefix of Darth to Obi, with Tyranus.
sc 091 Anakin & Watto reunion
– delete watto’s line: ‘you look like a jedi, what is is, i didn’t do it’
-then after his lines, ‘you are annie! it is you! Ya sure sprouted! Weehoo!’ insert the line of Anakin’s from the trailer “I’m a Jedi!’, then back to Watto ‘A Jedi! Waddya know?’, then playing out as per rest of script & movie.
NEW (ss)between sc 111 & 112, Obi’s initial report(his second overall) to Jedi & Senator in Palpatine’s office.
– It introduces a Darth was involved (which also ties into Yoda’s probing of the darkside when he picks up Anaki’s Tusken slaughter later) which clears up Jedi position to mystery of clones at end of film.
-finish that (SS) scene at Obi: ‘let me see if i can figure out what’s going on first’. The hologram of Obi-wan fades off. Palpatine stares at the spot where the hologram was in disbelief. (the rest of that (ss) following stuff is covered in the final Palp office obi hologram scene later.
– (also needs slight tweak later that Obi’s long range transmitter is leaking & now drained of power, when he has to go via Anakin later.)
following scene 112 is now in context of Obi’s renewed investigation into the tower entrance as per the film.
sc 115 Dooku’s speech, delete the specifics about controversial political economic topics, cutting down to
– ‘As i explained to you earlier, I’m quite convinced the 10K more systems will rally to our cause with your support gentleman. Signing this treay will bring you profits beyond your wildest imagination. Our friends in the trade etc’
cut sc 122 & 123 for later
– Obi’s transmission effort to Anakin & R2 receiving it.
after sc 121, Yoda sensing Anakin’s choas of slaughter in the force and Qui-gon voice, go to sc 124 Anakin arriving back to homestead.
sc 125 this is new, i like it, short scene between Padme & Beru – shows them interacting at intense time for Anakin, good for ANH Beru in relation to Luke’s father.
after sc 126, Anakin & Padme in garage, reinsert scs 122 & 123 – Obi transmission & R2 receiving, followed by sc 127, Shmi’s funeral scene.
sc 146 finish Dooku’s lines at end of ‘it is time to start over’. Padme’s reply to, ‘I cannot believe that, i know of your treaties with the Trade Federation, the Commerce Guilds and the others, Count. I will not forsake all i have honored & worked for & betray the republic’.
fanboi commenting: at this movie point there’s now a mystery clone army with Sith involvement, dooku putting together a robot army for his seperatist movement, Dooku asking both Padme & Obi to join him complaining the republic’s not working – which they both have complained about earlier in film, Dooku has told Obi that a Sith is in ctrl of the republic & he doens’t trust bounty hunters, not long after Obi has found out via other Jedi that Jango was talking about a Sith being involved in other army. fun!! the mystery of the plot is the mystery of christopher lee’s Dooku, & it’s a total enigma at this point of the movie with alot of dramatic momentum as all the story elements are now speeding towards their collision.
sc 154 Jedi battle arena
– cut anakin & Padme in the cart
-re-insert sub-plot droid ctrl ship & Jedi slowly driven from back of bleaches to middle of arena, much like blueray deleted scene montage.
sc 159 Geonosian command centre
– cut Dooku’s small lines about his master.
sc 162 show some clones on speeder bikes racing towards the Droid armies
sc 170 extended lightsaber duels of Anakin/Dooku & Yoda/Dooku if filmed.
That was fun, apologies about my indulgence, those tweaks with the art book AotCs script is major aces to me in wishful thinking of my fav. prequel.
My personal wishes for AotC: The Director’s Cut:
-Re-instate as many deleted scenes as possible! Audiences are more willing to watch very long films nowadays, so stuff like meeting Padme’s familly can come back in. Plus, it gives ’em extra time to get their heads round Palpatine’s fiendish brilliance. (Seriously, that man doesn’t have AN evil scheme, he has a ten-layer decision tree of evil schemes.)
-Put a digital effects team to work on the textures of the digital backgrounds. Like the space battles in the original cuts of the OT, they were state-of-the-art (and some more!) at the time but new techniques have developed since.
The critics just didn’t want to see Anakin portrayed as a sweet little kid. They wanted the anti-social, head spinning, born-of-a-jackal, little sister-molesting, cat murdering, force lightning-using, creepy nursery rhyme-reciting version of nine year old Anakin.
If Anakin had really acted like that, then why would Yoda or Qui-Gon ever attempt to have him trained?
Jake Lloyd’s job was to play a fairly normal nine year old boy in a family movie set in space. That’s what he delivered.
The criticism arises because the “fans” had a conceptual problem with the story. The screenplay and the acting were good for what the film was trying to be. It wasn’t trying to be dark fantasy or psychological horror, but the uptight critics could never wrap their minds around that.
^ And the ‘evil-from-the-start’ Anakin wouldn’t even make sense, given that his redemption arc revolved around him remembering the good man he used to be. If Anakin had been a creepy little kid, like Tom Riddle/Voldemort, it wouldn’t have fit with the man he became later in life.
It’s ironic that many critics had complained about Anakin not being some borderline delinquent from the beginning (which is probably why they didn’t care for him being nine years-old in the first film). Yet, at the same time, they have complained about the more ambiguous portrayal of the Jedi and the many mistakes committed by the major characters (good or bad) throughout the trilogy. Very strange.