PT Fans Have To Know What They Want

There have been many posts at SWPAS over the years about the “passion” deficit between what I’m now calling the anti-Lucas faction of fandom and saga/prequel fans.  You don’t need to be a rocket scientist to figure out the correlation between that deficit and the state of Star Wars now.  In fact it is entirely possible whatever window of opportunity existed to diminish that gap has closed and is closed for good.  I’d noticed prequel fans becoming a lot more vocal last year, which is a positive development.  I’d noticed folks expressing greater appreciation for the prequels after TFA came out, which is nice.  But is it too little too late?

Disney has already figured out that encouraging a fandom toxic to the prequels and to people like you does it no harm whatsoever.  A recent TFA visual effects video showed just how much green screen was actually used in spite of the constant drum beat of “practical, practical, practical” at the prequels’ expense.  Gee, how convenient that slipped out after the pre-release campaign was over and the trophy campaign began.  Did you notice that none of the prequel big guns were invited to any of TFA’s premieres?  Sure it was cool they got a little involvement from Ewan and all but otherwise they were personas non grata.   May I remind you that the OT stars made it to premieres of the various prequel films?  George Lucas felt obligated to quickly backtrack and apologize over some of his remarks in his Charlie Rose interview but no one associated with TFA who made anti-prequel remarks was ever pressured to backtrack or apologize.  People who think all of this is just to get the anti-Lucas faction back on board with Star Wars and things will be different from now on are being very, very naïve.  Fans who expect the prequels to be woven into the ST narrative in a significant way are also being very, very naïve.  I’ll make it plain to you:  Disney’s campaign worked, it paid off hugely, and so it will do more of the same.  That’s how it works in Hollywood.  Already Colin Trevorrow, who’s making Ep. IX, said he’s using film because of some blather having to with childhood memories.  Hint:  not the memories of those who saw AOTC or ROTS during their childhood.

If you want further proof, I’m starting to see total uniformity in the merchandising that’s not the toy market.  Everything is just OT and TFA.  As someone who pays attention to “geek girl” merchandising, I can tell you there’s nada coming from the PT, not from Disney directly or any of the licensees.  With a few exceptions, I’m about ready to give up except for whatever I can get custom on Etsy or something.  I’ve done plenty of talking, writing, and hoping that if I support what they put out now, they’ll eventually get around to the prequels.  But the truth is the prequels, and the Clone Wars along with them, are being whitewashed away.  Yesterday I read that Rogue One stuff is going to start coming out in June.   When does that leave any time or opportunity to get around to the prequels?  And how long will it be before prequels are squeezed out of everything else too?

You see, if you’re not very vocal and especially if you’re not willing to hit Disney’s bottom line, you have no leverage.  As it is, fans are like cats.  It’s hard to rally them around anything.  Sites often don’t help each other out.  I’ve noticed half of them aren’t really all of that supportive of the films, and most of the other half aren’t focused on any goals.  Recently I’ve noticed some petitions going around to bring Hayden back to play ghostie Anakin, but it’s going to take more than an online petition to accomplish anything.  Especially if the haters are even louder; if anyone at Lucasfilm saw the SWPAS Facebook page on Christmas Eve after I unwittingly posted an old rumor about Hayden being in Ep VIII, there’s no way in hell we’d see hair or hide of him ever again.   You will not have leverage if you plan to wait another 10 or 20 years for prequel fans to finally demand their slice of the legacy pie.  Why do that when you can do it now?  You expect to have more leisure time in middle age?  How about waiting for retirement to awaken the sleeping giant of prequel fandom?  I’m sure they’re shaking in their booties over that looming threat.

So you have to ask yourselves, what do you want?  How much do you really care about any of this?  How much does Lucas’s saga truly mean to you?  What are you willing to do?  How far are you willing to take it?  I’m not saying to you need a 100% boycott of all Disney companies, never set foot in a park ever again, etc..  I keep encouraging positive reinforcement like supporting the prequel stuff that does make out to market.  I also don’t encourage blind bashing.  But if you’re going to just numb yourself with whatever these guys put out and see every film 25 times no matter what they do or say re the prequels, you forfeit the right to complain about any of it.  What incentive does Disney have to respect the prequels or include them if it can count on your patronage anyway?  It would read to me that the prequels are not all of that important to you.

Maybe it’s time for you guys to go out there and inspire me for a change.   Make me feel like I’m accomplishing something here instead of just talking to myself.  Get focused.  Have a real plan.  Build up the courage to say something.  This one site is not going to change the game all by itself, if it can at all.

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103 Responses to “PT Fans Have To Know What They Want”

  1. piccolojr1138 Says:

    Expanded Universe “Legends” fans harass Lucasfilm since two years, but that didn’t change anything… They’re even less considered than us.

    Boycotts are useless as long as the mainstream audience is on board…

    I think the real issue is to have a voice on big geek/movies medias… Which have such an influence on this matter. But how can you achieve that ? Infiltration ? Maybe ! Lol

  2. susanbowess Says:

    I totally agree with the statement above, but what exactly can I do to help spread the word, making sure the prequels never die out? I don’t have Disney’s address to send a petition to, if that would do any good, but I’m willing to write to them, and get everyone I know to do the same. I can always make another video like I did with the tribute to Lucas, but this time representing the prequels. Would that be enough? Not by a long shot. So what can I do to light a fire under prequel lover’s butts to make them shout louder than the haters? Just tell me and I’ll gladly do it!

  3. Jim Raynor Says:

    Unfortunately the Lucas/Prequel haters have a huge natural advantage in derangement levels. I’ve said it before in other places: hate is a powerful motivator but contented people are happy just to continue living and enjoying their lives.

    Disney can’t be stupid enough to not know that Prequel fandom exists. Box office, market research polling, toy sales, and the ratings for the popular Clone Wars series tell them all they need to know. People who run big businesses know that these things matter way more to the bottom line than nerd rage on geek sites.

    The problem I think is that the Prequels are a wedge issue while the Original Trilogy is not. As films, the Prequels support the OT but it doesn’t go the other way around (the OT standa better on its own because the Prequels didn’t even exist back then). Prequel fans tend to be whole saga fans and will get behind Star Wars even if it’s an OT-nostalgia fest like TFA.

    Creative leanings also skip generations. The people in charge now are the children and fanboys of the OT era.

    You see the same phenomena in comics. The past decade, and the forseeable future, are controlled by fans of sixties/seventies comics and characters. Many of the newer characters from the 1980s and later have been pushed aside to make way for the returning “iconic” and “original” characters. The older stuff has an advantage in being older. Newer stuff builds on the old, and even younger fans know where it all started.

    If everyone is fine with the older version, but some people (no matter how much of a vocal minority they are) hate on the newer stuff, then I think the bug business is going to choose the path of least resistance by just siding with the older stuff.

    That isn’t to say that Prequel fans can’t support “their” Star Wars too. I bought th Obi-Wan and Anakin comics (glad to hear it’s a big seller) and I’ve defended the movies’ quality and legitimacy on forums before.

    I don’t expect a sudden turnaround from the current back patting OT fan service love fest, but it wouldn’t hurt if Prequel fans spoke out more. Stand up for them when the movies get bashed in geek forums (opinions are fair game but many basher posts are rooted in poor “logical” and “factual” statements). Post favorably a out the Prequels in social media.

    The few prominent Prequel fans who have carved out a place in geek media are the ones in the best position. They’re the ones who need to keep speaking out and leading the charge.

    In all Prequel support, we need to hold ourselves to a better standard than the bashers though. Don’t sink to their level. Win hearts and minds by being a better, more rational persom.

    DO call out the disgusting vitriol of the haters though. Other fandoms have a sense of shame that keep their members somewhat grounded (however small that mitigation is). The Star Wars fandom embraces rude manchildren like Simom Pegg, and it unapologetically lionizes things like Red Letter Media with its vicious personal attacks and rape jokes. THAT needs to change, because this fandom culture is absolutely toxic. Get out the message that someone can dislike the Prequels if he/she wants, but that the character attacks on Lucas, the out-of-control nerd rage, and the “raped my childhood” stuff needs to go away. It’s long past time for the SW fandom to grow up and come back down to Earth.

    • susanbowess Says:

      I’ve always defended the prequels and always will no matter how many times I get into heated arguments with haters. It’s the least I can do for the movies, the actors, and most of all… George Lucas!

    • lazypadawan Says:

      The past month and a half or so has taught me a lot about the nature of that toxicity and where it really comes from. It’s taught me the complaints about the prequels were mere excuses and the raging over them weren’t about picky fans demanding the utmost quality or even nostalgia. But that’s another post for another day.

      • lovelucas Says:

        I need to hear this LP

      • Cristian Martinez Says:

        So you are finally seeing my line of thinking? That you would archive nothing being nice to the Original Star Wars fans and to Disney. For some years now, after getting all the Original Star Wars bashing since that I enter in the realm of internet, I decided to change of tactics, instead of being passive and rational, I decided to be as aggressive as the Original Star Wars fans, attacking them before they attack me, and now my recent project is bring down the new trilogy, the spark have been lit and the fireworks are beginning to spread, To the Original Star Wars fans it had take them more a decade of hard work to bring down the prequels, it would take similar time to destroy their favourite toy and bring them to tears.

        In a toxic fandom you don’t bring real change being nice, the Star Wars fandom is a pool full of sharks, you can become the bigger shark or be the little fish and die.

      • morejawajuiceforme Says:

        lazypadawan,

        I noticed that years ago. Having had far too many discussions with some of these people, I’ve come to notice that a lot of them don’t hate the prequels because of Jar Jar being horrible, too much CG, bad writing/directing/acting, whatever; they hate THOSE things because they were unhappy that they hadn’t receive what they wanted. It’s almost like they simply didn’t want to admit that this Star Wars content wasn’t personally for them, or they simply didn’t want to learn to appreciate new and different (but still tonally and thematically consistent) Star Wars.

        Was it them? No, no! It was the movies! They were badly made! Yeah!

        What followed were like-minded individuals banding together and throwing anything and everything against the wall and seeing what stuck, despite the potential hypocrisy on their part, despite the facts that they had to ignore/invent; and they repeated those claims for so long and so hard that they’ve become some kind of perverted fact in many people’s minds (including, seemingly, the current powers-that-be at Lucasfilm and Disney). It’s arguing against indoctrination. Some of these people simply don’t want to see or hear any different, and they’ll shout down any attempt to look at this any other way, backed up by their comrades and the mainstream media.

        It sounds hopeless, but we’ve all (hopefully) noticed more and more people sticking up for the prequels and for George Lucas. We have to help them out, encourage them, and constantly speak for the virtues of the movies and their illustrious creator–and not just here or at other prequel sanctuaries. We need to speak up for them at the more popular, mainstream places, too, no matter how stressful it is to deal with some of these folks and their arguments. We know what we appreciate and no amount of ridicule and harassment can stop that. If we express ourselves with dignity and sound logic, we’ll keep picking up more and more people who are willing to stand with us and we could change a lot of hearts and minds. 🙂

      • susanbowess Says:

        You’re absolutely right about spreading the word about defending Mr. Lucas and the prequels. I’m still telling people on Facebook about our Lucas appreciation vid and it’s getting more viewers all the time, that also add their thanks in the comment area thanking Mr. Lucas. It’s got over 1000 views and 80 likes so far, and I’ll continue to tell everyone I come in contact with about our vid. I’ll never stop standing up for the prequels, and more importantly, for Mr. Lucas.

  4. madmediaman Says:

    Beautifully said, and spot on.

  5. The Prequelist Says:

    The best thing that can happen for the prequels and it’s fans is for Disney to continue to churn out bland, paint by numbers movies like TFA. People tend not appreciate something until they realize it’s gone for ever and now they we’ve seen what Star Wars looks like when not driven by George Lucas’ vision but by corporate pandering, it’s a lot easier to see just how unique Star Wars was as a huge but independent franchise. It still hurts to think that Star Wars as we knew is dead but I think the future will much more kinder to Lucas’ legacy.

  6. Adam Says:

    God bless all you all with your passion and appreciation, but it’s probably better that we just follow the example GL set…LET IT GO! What was, will never be again. Lets just be glad we got what we got. Despite the naysayers and contrarians, the “Prequels” were HUGE for their time. Even now, despite the monetary achievement of JJ’s contribution, the critical and artistic assessment of the TFA’s is that whatever is to come…nothing can surpass the vision that GL had.

    I take solace in that. I know, like the LP and the a majority of the fan’s of her page- know the difference between innovation and imitation. In the end that’s all the validation we need. It’s also the most conclusive!

    • lazypadawan Says:

      Fair enough and there may come a time for us to just go our own way. As it is, I’m spending more time online discussing music and t.v. shows than talking SW. But if I’m not tooting the PT’s horn here, who will?

      • susanbowess Says:

        I’ll “never let go” of my love for the prequels, nor defending them to haters. Like you, I’ll keep “tooting my horn” until that horn no longer “toots.”

      • Hoggle Says:

        Do you think it would derail your blog LP, if you posted miscellaneous threads occasionally not directly related to the prequels but what prequel fans, in your judgement, might like that you or other fans like or could be of interest?

        Like ‘Jane got a Gun’ had abit of a prequel cast dynamic in it, & Natalie Portman looked prequel beautiful in a few of it’s premieres. I recently saw a couple of fantasy movies in a two part story that while different, were interesting in their layered way in a style that the prequels overlap in.

        I don’t know if it would work or not, but there must be a chance that prequel fans would share and have fun or interest with fandoms of things that have some similarities to the prequels in someways for prequel fans that gravitate to your blog 🍵

      • lazypadawan Says:

        I’ve posted a little bit about other PT-related projects (“Jane Got A Gun” is out in theaters in some markets). If there’s a movie out that’s heavily influenced by the prequels, that’s okay too. Other than that I want to stay focused on the SW prequels. There are plenty of media sites that talk about everything else.

      • Hoggle Says:

        Oh, i didn’t mean taking focus away from the prequels LP, just the opposite – was probably abit inprecise with my wording i guess. Instead of ‘miscellaneous’ threads abetter title would have been ‘Prequel Legacy Threads’. My thought was could just be an extra thread on your prequel bow for your blog audience, in connecting the prequels to other things in a cultural institution type of fandom way that is less of a particular time & place, particularly with general movie fandoms to give abit of a ‘refresh’ POV for the prequels in that sense. I just figured there could be quite a few ways that could possibly compliment your Great prequel blog attributes & it’s readership, meant in no way as a suggestion in taking focus away from the prequels 🎩

    • Artiom Says:

      We’re not dedicating our lives to it, but it’s better to have a plan and do something actual, if it’s important for us. And we all live our lives no matter what. But if all spend like 10 minutes a day for this (defending prequels) in action, I think it will start to make a change, and it’s not a big sacrifice at the same time.

    • jayoungr Says:

      I’m not quite sure what you mean by “Let it go,” but if you mean that we should give up hope for ever seeing any more movies, games, novels, or merchandise related to the Prequel era, I don’t agree. Disney has announced their intention of making a LOT of new Star Wars movies; why shouldn’t some of them be set in the Prequel era? And new books and video games come out even more often than new movies.

  7. Noah Evans (The Artist) Says:

    Sigh… even though there are worse tragedies in the world that are actually worth being forlorn over… I really wish the Disney buyout of Lucasfilm never happened… not just how Disney is being all business-correct and trying to appeal to a group of bullies (didn’t anyone tell Bob Igor or Ms. Kennedy that you shouldn’t reward the misbehaving children?).. in addition, DIsneyland is being tampered with just to add in a “NEWLY ACQUIRED PROPERTY THAT WE NEVER MADE IN THE FIRST PLACE” to their park..

    Anyway, all I believe messa can do is wear my Jar Jar hat (and a shirt, maybe the Triple Self-Portrait of Lucas I did) to their parks, and purchase any prequel-merchandising out there…. I mean, drawing fan-art isn’t really as effective… :/

    • Noah Evans (The Artist) Says:

      P.S well… I also won’t be going to any of the films’ during the theatrical releases (mostly the useless spin-offs)

  8. Hoggle Says:

    Hmmmm, as an exercise in TOTALLY wishful thinking, i’d go for a specialist $300-400 PT box set 😎

    Like with complete ‘first cut’ editions of all films with full effects 😛 even if run times greater by an hour and a half.

    Then a re-mastered & mixed set of version of the theatrical films, perhaps with different takes of the same scenes along with one edited with music emphasis by mixed & possibly changed by John Willians only and the other effects emphasis with Burt in a similar fashion, so 3 new film versions of the theatrical cuts also.

    Then an ultimate edition of the three films, somewhere between the first cuts and theatrical editions.

    For the ultimate editions, overall, i’d probably rate the editing on TPM the best out of the three, so would get that doud with the long hair who was on one of the deleted scenes as editor, along with Rick Macculum who would have a pretty good feel for everything as he was so involved with most aspects & layers in creating the prequels with GL & prior to the prequels Directed Radio Land Murders with GL, so he would be a good steward in that way, along with John Knoll & Rob Coleman, & the artistic team from AoTCs in particular, being in the fold for completion & putting together of new stuff for first cut and ultimate editions. Macculam also seemed to be a bit rueful with the editing and stuff being cut at times in completion of the three, so i think he’d do a great job and get alot of satisfaction.

    Star Wars is Dysneys things now, so yeah, not a chance they would be interested in something like that, & would probably cost one and a half prequel films to do HaHa 😃

  9. Rogue 47 Says:

    If Prequel fans want to ensure that more Prequel-content ill be forth coming I see fairly little hope in ‘consumer pressure’ like the EU fans are trying in vain and like the OT-only fans tried fruitlessly during the PT era. But you could encourage people who are creative enough to write screen plays, or novels or comics. If you want content then either produce it or encourage those with the talent to do so. You won’t however stop the main franchise from moving on into Sequel territory and, like I argued elsewhere, we shouldn’t. Star Wars wouldn’t survive when all it does is serve separate trilogy audiences. Now if a PT fan or an OT is dissappointed by TFA then it is very easy to accuse it of being mere ‘fan fiction’ and ‘fanservice’, but that is in reality just dependent on your focus. There is enough new stuff in TFA, and i have no doubt there will be new stuff in the other sequel films. But it is really easy to just paint it all as regurgitating OT stuff. Prequel haters also called PT just a money-grabbing piece of plot recycling during ’99 to ’05 and we all know how wrong they were.

    • lazypadawan Says:

      The problem is they’re not just moving on into ST territory–that was going to happen anyway–the problem is it’s only OT and ST (even Rebels curiously gets short shrift). If Eps IV-VI are legit, then why not I-III? It’s an equal part of the saga. What about the obvious sops to the anti-Lucas crowd to sell the TFA that I have no doubt they will use again to sell Ep VIII or even Rogue One? If you love those films why do think they deserve that kind of treatment? The OT was never burned or denigrated in any way to sell the prequels nor did OT merch totally disappear forever once TPM was released. PT merchandise all but disappeared after ROTS, Clone Wars stuff aimed at kids notwithstanding.

      • hansolo1138 Says:

        I’m gonna disagree with you on that one, Lazy. I see a good healthy mix of a lot of TFA items, a few Prequel items, and slightly more Original Trilogy merch on store toy shelves wherever I go.

        Or maybe I am just seeing Hasbro merch doing that; I will admit that things like PT t-shirts are less common than OT t-shirts by a rather wide margin.

      • lazypadawan Says:

        I more or less stopped collecting toys. I specifically referred to the non-toy market.

      • hansolo1138 Says:

        OK. My bad.

  10. lovelucas Says:

    As badly as I feel about the potential deliberate corporate actions to make the prequels a distant memory (or less) you, LP, losing heart and thinking what you’ve done, are doing (and damn – I hope you continue to do) isn’t having an effect, that you might even be despondent enough to discontinue – THIS would sentence me to a life in the desert and not the desert of Tatooine but that of a person endlessly wandering without hope. Every day – EVERY day – I do or say something pro-prequel but it’s getting difficult to not accompany those actions with the disgust I feel for Disney and especially for Kathleen Kennedy who has dropped her disguise. This from Vanity Fair: “George Lucas is obviously the one who was the driving force behind Star Wars since its inception. It was his baby, and as such, Kathleen Kennedy told Vanity Fair that there was a deference to his vision, though that’s not the case anymore. She said: (hardy har har)
    “I think this company, for a long time, was driven by waiting to see what George wanted to do. I don’t run this company that way. People aren’t sitting around waiting to see what Kathy wants to do.”
    The article continues:
    It makes sense that, with George Lucas out of the picture, things would change in the Star Wars universe. For so long he was the one with all of the control, who made all the decisions, and that is certainly different since Lucasfilm changed hands. Now there is more of a collection of people, a kind of brain trust, that is working to expand the brand like never before, and it’s clear that no one around those offices is sitting back and waiting,
    Yeah – they are going to continue to put out so much, so many everything about Star Wars that it will become diluted and mundane. I hate to say this but I look forward to that day. Until then I continue to support prequel merchandise where I can find it, I keep repeating stories of truth every chance I get – but especially on Facebook where I jump at every occasion to throw in my photos of prequel people. Every time I post a response with my photo of me and Ian McDiarmid I always always accompany it with what he said to me – twice – that he respects Hayden as an artist and that those who offer nothing but hateful criticism and ridicule are not only wrong… they are missing the big picture. and I’ll add, they’re missing the big prequel picture and the point of the story. I can’t post images here LP – but I will respond to your email of my latest prequel buy. I’ll never stop – I hope you don’t either.

    • susanbowess Says:

      I’m another who continues to defend the prequels on Facebook. I know I should ignore the hate, but I love the prequels too much not to stand up for them. And I will continue to do so until the day I die!

  11. SWPN Says:

    “But is it too little too late?”

    Yes, it is to me. The fact that we were silent and allowed him to be affected by hate made it so. I don’t really care that much about content that does not come from him. I was already disenchanted when he left Star Wars due to “hatemail”, but I was still interested since I was told he had created a story for a sequel trilogy and that not only was it being adapted, but he was going to be a creative consultant. When they decided to go in a different direction, they forced Lucas involvement out, and that was the nail in the coffin. I really don’t care anymore. The last Star Wars products I bought were the Blu-ray of TCW Season 6, Son of Dathomir and Dark Disciple. At least those stories I know to be from Lucas.

    If they decide to release/adapt any more of his stories, I’ll vote with my wallet. Just like I did by not buying a ticket to see TFA. I would never give money to the same people who made that ridiculous marketing campaign at the expense of misinformation about the prequels. Nor would I give money to something made by ignoring the guy who created it all.

    • susanbowess Says:

      I understand why you prefer not to see any more SW films, but whether Lucas is still in charge or not, I believe you’re missing out on some good films. Lots of people didn’t care for JJ’s adaption of the saga, but I think he did a good job considering he had to work under Disney’s consigns. Star Wars was Lucas’ vision and I wish he was still at the helm, but I will watch future movies regardless of who continues them.

      • SWPN Says:

        What good films? And JJ contributed to the problem I’m criticizing. He wasn’t doing a spin-off, he was doing Episode VII. He, as a fan, should have stood back and embrace everything Lucas provided. Not make a movie to feed his own nostalgia.

      • susanbowess Says:

        To each their own SWPN, but no matter what you say I still think TFA was a good addition to the saga, and not just another ANH. There was just enough reference to ANH. Lucas did the same thing with all 6 movies, each had a reference to other SW movies.

      • roxam91 Says:

        Couldn’t have said it better myself

      • susanbowess Says:

        Thanks roxam91. I appreciate the support.

      • Jacobesico Says:

        I’m glad you enjoyed The Force Awakens, Susan.

        The Marketing campaign plus the snide digs at The Prequels from the reviwers have put me off from seeing the movie.

        Plus I have been following the spoilers so I am very much awear of what happens in the movie and I’m not pleased about it one bit.

        For me, the saga ends with Return of The Jedi anyway. It’s the perfect ending to the saga which Disney has ruined.
        Plus from what I’m hearing about “Episode 8” and a certain character, I have deep reservations about that too.

        I have no desire to bash anyone who likes the movie. I’m sure it is an enjoyable film with the new cast being likeable characters.

        I see your video has reached a thousand views. The comment section is very interesting and heartwarming.

        I’m not ready at any rate to let go of the prequels. They are wonderful movies despite what anyone else says about them.

      • susanbowess Says:

        I appreciate your side of things, but I still think TFA was a good movie. Not great mind you, but still a pretty good continuation of the saga. I’m anxious to see what happens in Episode 8.

        I’m assuming you mean Anakin as the character you’re referring to (deep reservations) and I’m afraid I have to disagree with you about that too. I think he did a fine job in Revenge and would love to see him in future SW movies coming back in spirit form like Obi-Wan did with Luke.

        Thanks for letting me know that our Lucas appreciation video has reached 1000 views. I haven’t been on youtube lately to check on it. I sure hope Mr. Lucas was one of the viewers. 🙂

      • Jacobesico Says:

        Not Anakin no. I wish he was in The Force Awakens to be honest and I loved seeing Hayden Christensen in Return of The Jedi and I agree he did an excellent job in Attack of The Clones and Revenge of The Sith.

        I’m talking about Supreme Leader Snoke. I don’t want to spoil things but from what I’ve heard if the rumours are true then it would be a massive two fingers to the Prequels. I think they’re re writing “Episode 8” anyway but it better not be true.

      • susanbowess Says:

        According to rumors Disney is already filming episode 8 and have already started the script for episode 9. Say what you will about TFA, but I liked it and will see future SW movies. Hopefully Disney will use Lucas’ ideas after all the hoopla about them tossing them out for TFA, but I doubt Lucas would agree to it even if asked. (who could blame him) None-the-less, I’ll still see the movies. It’s SW and I’ve waited too long to see more of the saga, no matter who puts them out.

        Frankly, I’m surprised that more prequel fans aren’t supporting TFA, especially after the harassment from haters we’ve received over the years. Some have even poisoned their minds to this movie because a few haters liked it.

        As far as TFA being too much like ANH, I can’t see it. Yes, the movie does make references to ANH, but Lucas did the same thing with his movies too. That video with all six movies shown together proves that. Anyway, I hope we don’t become as loud mouthed, and hateful as those we complained about for years.

    • Hoggle Says:

      My impression is JJ would have been a perfect fit for a Han Solo type spin off movie than a Star Wars saga film, but there was more to it than that to consider i would appreciate.

      In my fan fi sequelc trilogy, Anakin spirit says goodbye as long lost reuinted friend to Obi-1 in first episode, & lops of Darth Vader’s head in 3rd when also lightsaber battling against Han & Leia’s lost prodigy of the series 🏁

    • Cristian Martinez Says:

      In the beginning of this years I was exited to get Force Awakens in DVD, and then all the prequel bashing began again, and when I see the movie I was totally disappointed, it was like seeing the Originals all over again, expecting something intelligent, but the universe was completely butcher, I wont get Force Awakens DVD when it come out, and I wont get the DVDs of the sequels, any of them. The universe was completely dumbed down, it wont worth it.

      Maybe it to late, never the less, that doesn’t mean that we cant keep digital copies of the Prequel Trilogy and Clone Wars in a cloud in internet, maybe get all the digital information about them as well there, sits still have the Prequels movie to download, from HD to DVDrip. If we would want to keep this movie alive, we need to keep them in here, were no one can touch them.

  12. Hunk a Junk Says:

    I’ve been a fan from the beginning. As far back as the summer of 1977 I remember angry “debates” with know-it-all, loudmouth geeks (the precursor to a typical Aint It Cool News talkback jack-hole) who CLEARLY knew better than George Lucas how to tell Star Wars stories. With every movie, every TV show, every product there have been basement-dwelling auteurs who know passionately that if only THEY were in charge then the Star Wars saga would be perfect. Well, those are the people in charge now. The folks at not-Lucasfilm would surely say, “Oh no, that’s not me! I’m a filmmaking professional with taste and experience guiding my actions,” but in Hollywood “professionalism” often means doing what the bosses tell you to do. And in this case, that’s Disney executives who are all too willing to bow and cater to the whims of the loudest and angriest voices. And that’s not us. PT fans are passionate, and sometimes angry, but I believe we’re PT fans because we have accepted George’s vision. We’ve learned to “let go” and remember that the future is always in motion. The people who completely ignore the saga’s central message — that a desperate need to control only leads to suffering — are the ones now calling the shots. And it’s a shame. I proudly promote and defend the PT and George whenever I can. I try to use humor to disarm anti-PT rants and, if nothing else, remind people that I’m entitled to like what I like without other people’s permission. But, truthfully, the Jinn is out of the bottle and Star Wars is a now business entity beholden only to the financial marketplace. The hateboys are hardwired to be relentless and unforgiving in their efforts to control the saga. George Lucas was our firewall against them, but he’s gone. So it’s their saga now, not mine. Or yours. They won — at least in terms of where the saga goes from here. But we can continue to like what we like and not let it affect us. Shakespeare’s plays still endure hundreds of years after his death. The same will be true for George Lucas’s stories. Regardless of what Disney does, history will always delineate between HIS stories and the corporate storytelling that followed. His will always be regarded as the original vision — long after JJ Abrams, Kathleen Kennedy and Bob Iger become obscure answers to trivia questions.

    • SWPN Says:

      Well said. That’s why I call any work from Disney-owned Lucasfilm as fan fiction. Licensed fan fiction. The fans are in charge, limited by what they liked, ready to pander the crowd, not limited by their ridiculous, fourth wall breaking references and jokes.

      • Anthony Echevarria Says:

        It’s funny, because most of the prequel themed fanfiction I’ve seen is more respectful of George’s films than Disney. Yes, there are some bad stories, there are some poorly written ones, but there have also been some truly great stories. Some have remained incomplete, and that’s a shame.

        The Force Awakens doesn’t compare to the best fanfics I’ve seen. It doesn’t even come close. Not to toot my own horn, but I think myself and my co-writer could write a better Star Wars movie at this point than J.J.. The situation is that dire.

        TFA had no power whatsoever. None.

      • Noah Evans (The Artist) Says:

        Anthony Echevarria I have not read any fanfic you wrote and yet I wish you and your friend were the writers of Force Awakens…..

  13. Kim Says:

    I didn’t see TFA because it holds absolutely no interest for me and I despise what they did with Luke, Leia and Han. I don’t care that other people enjoy it, it just doesn’t exist for me. Just like I don’t care that Disney says the Legends EU is no longer canon; I choose what is canon for me personally. It is disheartening to see the lack of PT merchandise, but I found a nice saga (Episodes 1-6) t-shirt at Kohls among all the OT/TFA glut that I purchased and Hasbro continues to make prequel figures. I bought the Obi-Wan and Anakin comics on my Kindle and will buy the TPB when it comes out. The Disney Star Wars era has nothing to do with the movies I love, and their assembly line churning out of movies is irrelevant to the place Star Wars, encompassing Episodes 1-6, Clone Wars, and some of the Legends EU, has in my life.

    With the box office success of TFA, Disney isn’t going to change anything, but I never expected any more of the Star Wars that I love after Episode III was released, and was happy and surprised to get the Clone Wars. I hope you keep the site going for appreciation of what the prequels did so beautifully, even if it doesn’t change anything going forward; they deserve to be remembered and respected by all of us who love them.

  14. Artiom Says:

    I think it’s good that this topic was brought up.
    These movies are important to me – they were a big source for inspiration and reference to me.

    I’m very much disappointed with Disney – their campaign on the expense of deliberately bullying one fraction of the fandom is very wrong. It seems that Kathleen Kennedy betrayed George Lucas, which doesn’t make it any better.

    I always saw this group as a place for active community. There’re groups on Facebook praising prequel visuals, nostalgia about prequels, but this one is to actively defend/promote prequel appreciation.

    We should have certain goals, I guess. It’s like “Have a number of people supporting our ideas large enough to make Disney notice us”. It must be pretty much anti-Dinsey/pro prequel movement. Take those with us who agree on this subject (like expanded universe fans).
    The sub goals can be gathering more people around the idea (and in the group), thus promoting more pro prequel events, supporting prequel products/releases, making our voice heard in SW discussions.

    It’s all easier said then done, of course. It requires a group of people ready to spend their time on all this.
    But maybe we can already make a sort of a brainstorm in this group to clarify further actions like: what is that we should do (what are our goals should, what is important) and how (what to do, what kinds of activities to perform).
    So what do you think about al this?

  15. princesselwen Says:

    I found a bag at Target that had characters from all 6 original films on it. (There’s Vader in the middle; with Luke, Leia, Han, Boba, C3PO, R2D2, Stormtroopers, X-wings, and the Death Star on one side of him; and Anakin, Padme, Obi-Wan, Grevious, Yoda, and Republic fighters on the other). It was the only thing I could find with Prequel characters. The only thing I might want from TFA is a model BB-8, because he was super cute.
    The main reason I went and saw TFA was because I wanted to see it before I made any judgments about it. I didn’t want to be like those annoying people who claim that they just ‘know’ that Episodes 1–3 are bad, even if they’ve never seen them. I’m not terribly interested in Rogue One, though.
    I feel like they have nothing to lose in mentioning the prequels, though–the annoying ‘fans’ will just buy tickets so they can whine.
    I did have serious issues with TFA, though I don’t have time to mention them right now.
    I think what they really need is to find someone younger to direct–or at least someone who isn’t caught up in his own nostalgia. After watching both TFA and Abrams Star Trek (the latter of which I liked, but it was my exposure to the franchise, so I didn’t have the same attachment to it), I have come to the conclusion that he isn’t orginal. But Hollywood in general isn’t very original these days. Everything gets sequeled, rebooted, and ripped off into oblivion.
    Watching TFA was like looking at a copy of a really good artwork. You can tell what it’s trying to do, but also what it’s not doing.
    So I’m cautious about new stuff. The Han Solo spin-off might be fun, because I like the directors. (They did The LEGO Movie). But I generally have to wait and see about any new films. I’ve been trying not to judge things I haven’t seen, because I want to be fair. And the reason I watched the prequels as an adult was because I wanted to form my own opinion–and I ended up loving them.
    But this marketing is obnoxious, and makes my decisions more difficult. I consider it unethical for a company to base it’s marketing strategy on a lie.
    Also, ‘fans,’ like RLM are obnoxious And give nerds a bad name.
    And I’m merely curious (because I once tried to sell non-movie related stuff there). How do you sell stuff based on movies on Etsy without violating copyright laws?

    • lazypadawan Says:

      LOTS of other people are doing it and have been for years without any trouble. If there’s something you want to sell, go for it.

      • princesselwen Says:

        Well, I did sell an ‘ice princess dress’ that was clearly inspired by Elsa’s dress from Frozen. But since I didn’t call it anything but ‘ice princess dress,’–it didn’t have Elsa or Frozen or any name directly related to the movie on it–no one really cared.

  16. John DiLillo Says:

    I’m someone who doesn’t like the prequels. Please don’t throw me out yet! I promise I am not going to bash them and criticize you all for liking them.
    I do think there’s a little bit of unfairness going around here though, with this idea that people who dislike the prequels get off on it. Have you ever been disappointed by a movie? It sucks. I would give anything in the world to like the prequels, because then there would be three more Star Wars movies that I could watch and love on a consistent basis.
    I love Star Wars, and I object to the widely stated criticism that I am “not a true fan” just because I think the prequels are poorly made (Again, I do not want to fight about this and you are all welcome to your own opinions). I know you all feel bullied, and I understand that too, and it also sucks. I have been bullied for disliking the prequels. I have been dismissed and belittled and put in the corner for having an opinion. And I imagine this is exactly how you all feel. I am here to urge you to “not go down that dark path,” if you will. I’m going to be honest; I come to this website a lot, even though I don’t like the movies it is devoted to. I come because I really appreciate the passion that goes into it, and because it’s nice to get a look at the prequels from another perspective. And lately, it’s become a little toxic. I think it’s sad. So this is what I’m here to ask: Remember that everyone has a different perspective on these movies, and your perspective is not necessarily the “right” one. Be kind in the face of rudeness, or else are you really winning the fight? Also remember that, as disappointing as it is that you feel unrepresented now, people who like the prequels had a really great run. Almost fifteen years of prequel merchandise up the wazoo, two TV series, countless books and comics. Original trilogy fans have been disappointed by the franchise too. It’s the circle of life, if you will. I think there will be a time, maybe soon, maybe a little later, when prequel materials will be less hard to come by.
    Anyway, please know that I respect each and every one of you for your fandom, and I hope we can all try to unite and enjoy this new era of Star Wars together. I loved The Force Awakens, and I feel sad that so many of you here seem so disappointed by it. Hopefully the next films are better for your section of the Star Wars community. May the Force be with you all.

    • lazypadawan Says:

      Sorry, but once the bashers opened the Pandora’s box, they don’t get the right to close it when it’s convenient for them. And I think we’ve still been a HELL of a lot nicer than 99% of the PT haters.

    • susanbowess Says:

      A spy in our midst? Just kidding. It’s good to see that at least one of you who prefer the OT is trying to see our side of things. However, I do believe that you do have to embrace the entire saga in order to call yourself a true SW fan, but that’s just my opinion… even if most prequel fans would agree with me. To each his own opinion though, and that includes your right not to like the prequels. I just have a problem with those who are too close minded, hating Lucas for “ruining their childhood” (really? time to grow up, isn’t it?) and argue to the point of exasperation.

      As far as TFA goes, I loved it. I think JJ did a good job of continuing the saga with Lucas’ ideals in mind, even though some prequel lovers would disagree with me.

      • John DiLillo Says:

        Yeah, my childhood was great, partially BECAUSE of Lucas. I could never say he ruined it. He disappointed my young adulthood, but that’s a far cry from saying he raped my younger years.
        I think Lucas is a wonderful, kind person who can be a little clueless sometimes. I can also be a little clueless sometimes! I long ago forgave him for any bitter feelings about making three movies I didn’t like. His groundbreaking achievements far outweigh the disappointment. (I’m a little bit more upset about his editing of the old movies into a form I don’t like. I don’t mind him changing them, I just wish he would release his director’s cuts along side the original versions, but this is all beside the point).

      • susanbowess Says:

        Lucas’ editing of the old movies was more-or-less his director’s cuts. If he included the full director’s cut the saga would’ve been way too long to ever put out for the public, and most likely way to expensive.

        I’ve seen deleted scenes from the prequels I thought should’ve been added or changed just like you, but that doesn’t mean I didn’t like the versions he put out. I’m completely satisfied with the product that first hit the screens… including the OT too. I loved the whole saga, and I wish you’d give the prequels a second chance. You may end up liking them once you realize why Lucas made them – mainly in order to tell Vader’s back story, which you have to admit, we all wanted to lean about.

      • jayoungr Says:

        I think John’s point is that he wants to have easy access to the original versions of the OT. Which, fair enough. I bought those two-disc sets that had the original on one disc and the remastered version on the other for just that reason. You can still find those if you hunt.

      • John DiLillo Says:

        jayoungr, yeah, that’s exactly my point. Right now, I own the movies on VHS, but I would love to have my favorite films in better quality, and those limited edition DVDs are crazy expensive on the resale market. I would happily buy a Star Wars collection that included the Special Editions, if the original films were included on separate discs. My beef with Lucas is that he won’t give me that option, not that he fiddles with something he has every right to fiddle with.

        Not the place to knock the films.

      • susanbowess Says:

        George Lucas no longer owns Lucasfilms. He sold the franchise to Disney. You might be able to get what you’re looking for through them, but the items are probably even more expensive than they were before. You’re best bet is to check on amazon.com. Sometimes fans sell SW items privately at a discount.

    • Adam D. Bram (The Nilbog) Says:

      Except we never had a good run because once mainstream geekdom decided that Phantom Menace was somehow “objectively horrible”, roughly within days of its release if not sooner, all bets were off.

      And that’s what really bothers us. Art is 99% subjective, and in that slim 1% where objectivity could be argued, I-III is of pretty much the same caliber as IV-VI (the advancement of effects technology notwithstanding).

      I have no problem with people who don’t like something. I have a problem with people who use that dislike to try and prove that their opinion is a cold fact of nature. Especially when all of their “evidence” is either completely subjective, easily disproved by a cursory examination of the film in question, or something also used constantly in almost everything they claim to love. That last one is particularly boggling, because half the time I can’t tell the difference between a work they love and a work they hate. And this goes for all media and franchises.

      I will agree that I also disapprove of people who try to bash back just as hard as the bashers, and start to become the very thing they fought against (a major theme in Star Wars!), and if you have ever run into someone like that, I am truly sorry. However, while
      these people do make the rest of us look bad, trust me they are FAR rarer than the toxic anti-Lucas mainstream hatedom. And while two wrongs do not make a right, anyone who has contributed to this anti-Lucas toxicity has no right to blame the bad blood on those of us who actually defend the man and his vision.

      The problem is that nobody can have a rational discussion anymore. Everything is so emotionally charged. Nobody looks at things academically anymore unless it’s “universally” loved.

      • John DiLillo Says:

        But again, I don’t want to argue! I’m just glad we can agree that we need to be kind to one another. And one of the problems with the fanbase IS that emotional reaction. My feelings about the quality of the prequels don’t mean people can’t like them; I like lots of things that even I don’t think are terrific. We as a culture need to start separating the value of a thing from how we feel about a thing.

        Just as a note, this is not the place to knock the films.

  17. princesselwen Says:

    I don’t have a problem with people who dislike the prequels. My only problem is when they are rude about it, or they insult people who do like them. If you don’t like them, that’s fine. It would be boring if everyone had the same opinion. If you loved The Force Awakens, I don’t have a problem with that either. I’m glad you had fun. (And there were lots of things that I liked about it, too, such as Finn, Poe, Maz Kanata, and especially BB-8). I feel the same way about my other fandoms. I love Marvel movies, but I didn’t like Avengers: Age of Ultron. However, I don’t have anything wrong with someone who does. I don’t believe in harassing anyone about their opinion in a fandom. My problems in fandom are not about people who have different opinions. In fact, I like hearing from people who think differently. It’s only when they act rude about it that it becomes an issue.
    Judging from the 109-page analysis I read, I would have found RLM creepy no matter what he was analyzing.
    Also, I try not to get too worked up about things. Even if I don’t like any of the upcoming movies, I still have six that I enjoy.

    • jayoungr Says:

      What’s the 109-page analysis? Is it an analysis of RLM, or an analysis done by RLM?

      • Jim Raynor Says:

        It’s something I wrote up about 6 years ago in response to RLM’s review of TPM.

        A point-by-point rebuttal directly quoting most of the RLM along with corresponding time stamps in his videos to show when he said those things. Basically something to show how wrong RLM was throughout all 90+ minutes of the review.

        It was a long time ago, when I was a younger (mid-twenties) and less laid back man. If I were to write the same thing again, the tone wouldn’t be as hostile and angry (the over the top nerd rage of RLM and his fellow bashers showed me exactly what I don’t want to become). However, I still stand by my points against the RLM review.

        It was a dishonest and sometimes vicious personal attack against Lucas and his work, full of “logical” critiques and alternative story ideas that didn’t hold up to the slightest bit of scrutiny. Frankly, I question RLM’s basic reasoning skills. I also question his character, given the subjects thst he seems to find funny (jokes centered around mental disability and abuse of women).

        It’s a black mark on SW fandom that the fans embrace RLM as their idol, champion, and thought leader, completely unbothered by his lack of intellectual substance or basic decency.

      • Adam D. Bram (The Nilbog) Says:

        I used to have it bookmarked until the website started asking for money to view more than the first few pages. I’d love to read it again.

      • jayoungr Says:

        Found it. There’s a PDF link at the bottom of this article:

        http://thestarwarstrilogy.com/starwars/post/2014/09/03/The-108-page-rebuttal-to-Mr-Plinketts-Phantom-Menace-review

        Warning: Don’t read the article itself. Just scroll to the bottom for the download link. Don’t read the comments either!

      • jayoungr Says:

        Hey, maybe the PDF (or a revised version, if you feel like doing that) could be hosted here so that people don’t have to get it from hostile sites?

        But I can already see that I’m going to disagree with you on Obi-Wan’s characterization. “Mindlessly” repeating the teachings of Yoda, indeed! 😀

  18. jayoungr Says:

    Not enough time to write up detailed thoughts, so just two quick ones.

    1. LP, please don’t feel like what you’re doing here is futile. I for one was THRILLED to find this place.

    2. I think PT fans have an idea of what we want; we just don’t know how to get it.

  19. BrawlDecepticons Says:

    Not that long ago in a convention, I had an OT-fanboy threaten me because I said I didn’t like empire strikes back. When he tried to hit me, I punched him in the jaw.

  20. PrinceOfNaboo Says:

    This is a difficult topic.

    I certainly think that you have to let go of Star Wars to some extent. The PT bashers really teach us this reality, because what have they become? They got it their way ultimately, but on that way they have become the most ungrateful, poisonous, immature people trying to make the Star Wars experience miserable for those who don’t feel as negative and bitter as themselves. The have become the most intolerant and distasteful people, insanely obsessed with three succesful films they didn’t enjoy.

    I don’t want to get close to that. I’ve ultimately ended up seeing TFA once, mainly because I was invited by a friend, and I’m glad I did. While it became clearly the worst Star Wars film for me, I’m now content in saying that this films just takes palce in another another universe. In my mind, the story ended after Episode VI and TFA is some alternate universe story in which it continued for whatever reason; and TFA really makes it easy too see things that way because of how stylistically different it is. For instance, the lousy and uninspired, shoe-horned integration of wipe cuts in the new movie is enough to disconnect it from the style and essence of other films completely.

    With this certainty in mind and this content in heart, I’ll continue to love the PT and Lucas’ work, support them in the capacities I can (getting older means less time and more things to do) and just wait whether I’ll see Ep. 8 + 9 or not. There is a chance with these two films, mainly because it’s still Lucas’ legacy, but I certainly won’t see any of the spin-offs. Just no interest, neither in the movies nor supporting Disney’s disgusting handling of Lucas’ intellectual property any more.

    I hope you’ll continue with this side. I’ll happily participate if any “projects” are launched from here to support the PT in the future. I think there a great examples out there from other fandoms, we’d just have to start. But I also think everyone has to find a place where they feel content at heart. Otherwise you’ll become a basher like the PT haters, which makes life more miserable for everyone.

  21. Hunk a Junk Says:

    My 11 year old daughter, when talking about her friends discussing anime, remarked, “The first rule is you NEVER make fun of another person’s fandom.” That should be part of the license required of anyone using the internet.

  22. princesselwen Says:

    I agree 🙂 Smart kid.
    I don’t think there’s any need for spoilers now, is there? But just in case.

    I feel like the problem with all the people who are paranoid about seeing Hayden Christenson on screen again is this: The Force Awakens made Kylo Ren obsessed with Darth Vader because of Snoke’s lies. However, Vader was not who Anakin really was. Kylo is obsessed with the mask, not the man. So at some point, he’s going to have to face up to who the grandfather he idolizes really was–to the fact that at his death he did not slip from his true self, but rather found it again. And for that, you have to either have ghost-Anakin, or at least some decent explanation for why he isn’t there. Otherwise, its just sloppy writing and bad plotting. So if you don’t want ghost-Anakin–don’t write a story with a ghost-Anakin-shaped hole in the middle of it. Don’t have a position only he could fill. (I have to admit, he’d probably have the most horrified reaction in the universe to what his grandson got up to, and I’d pay to see any movie that had that in it).

    • lazypadawan Says:

      “Ghost Anakin Shaped Hole”–that’s exactly what this whole thing has left and tons of fans can see it (it’s all over Tumblr). Walking away from it out of fear of offending certain people would be cowardice of the highest degree. I’m sorry but a SW tailored for angry, hateful people is not a SW I want to support or be any part of anymore.

    • susanbowess Says:

      I can’t claim that it’ll ever be a movie, but I wrote a fanfiction where Anakin does come back in spirit form and fights his alter ego, (Vader) who has been reincarnated in a unique way. If interested in reading my story for free, just reply to this message, or email me at susanbowes@optonline.com. I’ll be glad to give you the link to download my story. (BTW, I’ve been told by readers that my story would’ve made a fantastic Episode 7.)

    • Adam D. Bram (The Nilbog) Says:

      This is actually why the one part of TFA that I thought was completely worthy of the galaxy far, far away was Kylo. I absolutely love the dynamic his character brings. I just hope they don’t chicken out with him and Anakin’s force-ghosty arc.

      Grandpa’s gonna have some words with you, m’boy.

      • susanbowess Says:

        I agree. I loved Kylo’s tantrums. They even surpassed Vader’s rage in some ways. I can’t wait to see what grandpa says to him, if in fact they bring Hayden back as Ani’s ghost. That would be a big thumbs up in my opinion. 🙂

    • jayoungr Says:

      I hate to be a wet blanket, but I’m not holding my breath for ghost!Anakin–and it has nothing to do with Prequel-bashing. Word has it that the Chinese censor board doesn’t like ghosts. I don’t think Disney will dare to risk losing Chinese sales by making a ghost into a major plot point.

      Maybe they can get around it in some other way, like having Kylo find Anakin’s lightsaber and get a vision of him when he touches it, kind of like Rey’s. It would be repetitive, but then, all of TFA is repetitive!

      • Anthony Echevarria Says:

        Maybe they can make two versions for the markets, one where Anakin’s Force ghost confronts Kylo, and another where Kylo touches Anakin’s saber and gets assaulted by a vision that bombards him with the horrible truth and plays havoc with his senses. And then collectors would go crazy trying to get both versions (via Blu-ray) of the movie!! 😛

        Actually, why have it be a Force ghost at all? What if Kylo finds himself in Anakin’s realm (whatever the afterlife of the Force is), and the landscape has transformed itself into a Mustafar-like hellish environment all around him? Kylo now has to fight Vader, who brutalizes him and mocks him about what a pathetic excuse for a Sith Lord he is, and he’s worthless. And then Vader turns into Anakin, who reveals that this is what Vader was, a monster, and that he wasted his life following the dark side, and that if this is the path Kylo intends to follow, then he is already beyond redemption. This is what makes Kylo decide that he has to be greater than his grandfather, to show that there is some worth in being a Sith.

        The lesson of the story: that not everybody can be redeemed, and sometimes you have to fight against someone you thought you could change. Ample motivation for Rey, if she knows that he’s been in contact with his grandfather, and Luke senses that it has failed. Rian Johnson did say that things would get ‘weird’, after all.

        I picture it the way you would do a Twisted Metal movie. If you’ve played those games, ‘Twisted Metal: Black’ has the bones for a good story, but you’d have to have three endings. The three endings would differentiate how you see the setting of the story, and what it all means. 🙂 In my fantasy, I picture theaters carrying one version of the movie, and having to eschew all others, in order to surprise the audience who don’t expect their character to win. 😛 And vice versa, if they’re expecting a certain other character to not win. You could do a similar thing with the American and Chinese audiences. One could get the Force ghost, and the other could get the vision. But I prefer my afterlife idea, to be honest.

        (Of course, Kylo would see the error of his ways in the end, on his deathbed. Dying can be the ultimate humbling experience for any number of people, if you’ve led a life of crime. 😛 Just look at any number of Batman stories.)

      • jayoungr Says:

        Oo, or what about something like Luke’s training in the cave, where he had to confront himself? We know Kylo is going through his final training to be a Knight of Ren. What if that involves a similar “spirit journey” where he has to face his idol and Anakin tells him the truth, as you suggest? And Kylo comes out of the training even more conflicted than before, but he doesn’t tell Snoke what happened. He tries to suppress the memory, but all the time after that, he keeps seeing and hearing Anakin speaki to him in moments where he’s assailed by doubt–that way we can get Hayden into more than one movie.

        Heheh, they should have us write those scenes for the new movies! ~_^

      • susanbowess Says:

        I think every one of us has “our own version” of what we’d like to see in the next episodes. The idea of us writing the scripts is fantastic, but Disney would never hire “unknowns” to do it – even though some of us have written very popular SW fanfictions posted on other sites. I think it would be really cool if there was a special page set up on this site to post our fanfiction stories. That way it would be easier to share them with everyone in this group.

      • jayoungr Says:

        Yes yes, I know that none of this is likely to happen in the next movies (hence the wink emoticon in my previous post). And I assumed everyone knew that I knew it, but I forgot that tone doesn’t come through on the internet. So just to be clear, I don’t expect to see any of this, and I wasn’t serious about saying we should write those scenes. I was just having a bit of fun tossing around ideas for “what would be cool.”

      • Hoggle Says:

        How much does Kylo Ren know about Darth Vader?

        In my fanfic sequel, Han & Leia’s prodigy didn’t know much about him, but he knows there is a connection which is an issue between his uncle, leader of the Jedi Knights Luke, & his mother, Leia, leader of the peace & equality guild and Empress of the galactic guild alliance.

        So he has developed a fascination about it, due to it being a mystery and the deep impact, off limits nature of it to his Mother as it is her only real flaw as she has become otherwise a kind of galactic Deus Ex power in ascension to becoming Empress Leia over a wide swarth of the galaxy.

        Leia doesn’t know it herself yet, but this stems from that she comes from a Guardian being called Amythuill, who is the leader of a cosmic order and Anakin was her right hand, first captain in the same way & second who she had sent to prepare the way for her which relates to the prophecy. That’s why Darth Vader has become such a uncharacteristic insurmountable issue for her to handle, & it has lead on to a fascination with D.V for her & Han’s prodigy which has the potential to enchant him which otherwise would not have been 👀

  23. dashattack92 Says:

    Danial Logan (Kid Bobba from AotC and Clone Wars) Went to the premier!

    • lazypadawan Says:

      True, as did Ray Park and Bonnie Piesse. But no Natalie Portman, no Hayden Christensen, and no Ewan McGregor. Heck, not even Samuel L. Jackson.

      • lovelucas Says:

        And not a peep about it being the 10 years anniversary of Revenge of the Sith. Of course that was the way Attack of the Clones was handled too. Deflect, block, steer attention is the m.o. and – forget I II III.

      • Anthony Echevarria Says:

        Er, I don’t know if it goes that far. I forgot it was the 10th anniversary myself! And I’m a HUGE ‘Revenge of the Sith’ fan!!! It’s probably just something that slipped their minds. I agree they hate the prequel movies, but I don’t see that as being intentional. Especially since there was money to be made off that, in merchandising (where the ‘real’ money from the movie is made, as usual :P).

  24. Doctor X Says:

    The fact is TFA made a boatload of money for Disney, in box office and merchandise. I’m sure that the home video release will do wonders for the soft market as well. It will be nigh impossible to convince them to change their plans when the first film under their leadership did so very well. Their next two films each have a great hook to keep audiences coming back. Rogue One has the rumor of Vader kicking all sorts of ass, something people wanted to see. Ep8 has an increased role for the ever popular Luke Skywalker and maybe clues about Rey’s identity.

    The OT fans had a specific list of demands, something the PT fans do not have. They wanted specific things: the ST be more like the OT, shot on film, and a reduced to nonexistent amount of PT stuff. The only thing that they haven’t gotten is a real release of the original theatrical cuts of Star Wars 1977, The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. This is somewhat mitigated by the fact that a group of fans have taken to do the work themselves, an admirable task.

    The PT demands are vague. There is no consensus. More Clone Wars? An even 1/3 of all products must be PT? You need a manifesto. Kathy Kennedy said that they did what they did for the fans because they were so vocal she knew what they wanted. I see too much of calling her a traitor and looking to Lucas on here. Lucas is gone and he’s never coming back. Play the hand you are dealt.

  25. hansolo1138 Says:

    Lazypadawan,

    What would you say to a fan like me, who likes everything Star Wars (Holiday Special and Jedi Prince books notwithstanding) and doesn’t really care what era of Galctic History is explored, just as long as it is more Star Wars?

    • susanbowess Says:

      I don’t know what Lazypadawan will say, but I’m with you. Anything that has to do with Star Wars I’m for. 🙂

      • hansolo1138 Says:

        Good for you! I’m glad you liked TFA. It kinda gets a bad rap around here, in case you haven’t noticed.

      • susanbowess Says:

        Believe me, I’ve noticed. I’ve tried to defend JJ, but nobody really believes he didn’t have anything to do with the script. All he did was direct the dang movie and I doubt Disney listened to any of his suggestions.

        As far as TFA being too much like TFA, yeah, there were some references to it, but no more than what Lucas used to do with his movies. Don’t get me wrong, I’d much rather see Lucas at the helm, but that’s never going to happen again. SW belongs to Disney now and everyone might as well get used to the idea. I’m just glad the saga is being continued, no matter who puts it out.

      • lazypadawan Says:

        He co-wrote the script.

      • susanbowess Says:

        You’d know that better than me because you follow SW more than I do. However, I still doubt JJ had much authority about the final script because Disney had the final word, just like Lucas had the final word on what was done with his movies, even the ones he didn’t direct.

      • hansolo1138 Says:

        Yeah, but I can’t seem to remember anything inherently disrespectful toward the Prequels in the script. That said, I’ve only seen it twice, so it’s likely that I still missed something.

      • susanbowess Says:

        I didn’t see anything disrespectful about the prequels in TFA either, but people seem to think that the movie is just a carbon copy of ANH and that Disney made it that way just to appease prequel haters. I agree that they had bigger mouths than we did so that’s the only information Disney had to go by. It was also said that Disney execs hated Lucas and that’s why they tossed our his ideas for the movie. I don’t think the general public will ever know the truth of why they actually did that. That’s between Disney and Lucas himself. All I know is Lucas was upset by what they did and that’s most likely why he went on Charlie Rose and criticized not only TFA, but Disney as well. Who can blame him for that? I’d be hopping mad too if somebody stabbed me in the back like Kathleen Kennedy did to Lucas.

  26. Brian47 Says:

    Hey guys, check it out, new Darth Maul figure, based on his appearance in Star Wars: Rebels!

    http://makingstarwars.net/2016/02/new-look-at-star-wars-rebels-darth-maul-from-new-york-toy-fair/

  27. Doug Brown Says:

    Call me crazy but the mere fact that that a place like this exists and that you are doing the work you do gives me hope that there are still some sane people out there. The vitriol directed at the PT films is inherently irrational and driven by stupid ideas that have no basis in any sort of reality. The fact that a forum such as this one allows those of us who think rationally and clearly about things to get together and discuss how we feel IS a huge benefit. I understand why you get discouraged LP but I feel like you are having a great impact and I truly appreciate your efforts.

    • susanbowess Says:

      Add my name to the list of people who appreciate what Lazypadawan has created. Thank the Force for this site where Star Wars fans can state their opinions and not have to worry about be attacked by pig-headed people. (and I say people, not fans because they don’t understand what being a true fan means) These people only look at things THEIR way, refusing to even listen to anyone else’s point of view. Even though we sometimes disagree on this site, we all show respect for each other and that’s a rare thing on other sites such as Facebook. Good job Lazypadawan and thank you. May the Force “always” be with you. 🙂

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