Who’s Sorry Now?

Image from seller Devil Olive on Redbubble.com. Yes, you can buy stuff with that image.

After TFA’s release there has been some articles here and there that have been encouraging yet maddening; wistful pieces that dare I say miss Lucas’s influence on Star Wars (and kinda sorta show some grudging respect for the prequels if not outright appreciation). Right now I’ve noticed most of these pieces are in higher-brow publications or sites that are more aimed at cinephiles than nerds, but I’ve seen more or less similar sentiments in the New York Post’s and GQ’s websites.

A couple of examples dropped in The New Yorker within the past week. The latter piece is interesting because here’s a Serious Film Guy who hadn’t seen any of the films until recently and didn’t really care for them…except for AOTC and ROTS. It’s as though the acid didn’t finally kick in until five films into the series. However, I’ll agree ROTS is Lucas firing on all cylinders and it’s great to see for a change somebody else notice how AOTC is a beautiful, complex film.

Of course I didn’t need TFA or anything else to recognize Lucas’s value as an artist and a visionary. I already know! That’s one reason why I’m bothering with this site. I just wonder to these guys, where the heck were you when we needed you? They certainly were not around during the prequel years. Back then it was cool to beat up on Lucas and his work and portray him as something worse than serial killer or a pedophile, a sentiment that unfortunately carried over to how TFA was reviewed. Oh sure there were a few people here and there who broke the trend but kicking Lucas around became a pop culture/media thing for a long, long time that got us to where we are now. As Jett Lucas tweeted around Christmas, think of all of the movies we would’ve seen already had it not been for all of the prequel bashing.

I think it’s widely acknowledged what George Lucas has done for entertainment and advancing cinema. There’s a reason why he got the Kennedy Center Honors after all. But he’s horribly undervalued and unappreciated as an artist. He seems to have shared the same fate as his mentor Francis Ford Coppola. In the ‘70s, Coppola could do no wrong. By the ‘80s and ‘90s everybody was throwing tomatoes at him and now he’s making his own weird experimental movies that occasionally get released to even more terrible reviews. (At least people like the wine.) Now Lucas is in his own exile, cut from the popular entertainment stage because frankly, nobody understood what the hell he was trying to do all along. Especially not Star Wars fans. Had there been more prominent voices who did understand Lucas’s oeuvre and if we had a culture more receptive to those voices, things would be very different today. Lucas might be still with the saga he created.

However, I suppose it is nice a few people are starting to recognize Lucas’s artistic strengths now instead of waiting for him to die. Maybe if we’re all lucky, this might kick off a reappraisal of his films, including the prequels, and at last a genuine understanding of the saga.



131 Responses to “Who’s Sorry Now?”

  1. Noah Evans (The Artist) Says:

    To agree and sum up what your wrote, if only the more positive and slack-cutting reviewers were around then, and George could’ve still been where he was. But, it is fresh and wonderful how more of these people are emerging.

  2. Bob Clark Says:

    The Richard Brody article is a big deal for me, personally. I’m a great admirer of his book on Godard, and I’ve seen him speak at a few screenings in New York over the past couple years. One instance sticks out– he was asked to speak at a screening of Godard’s “King Lear”, but the place accidentally got a print of some other version instead (I forget whose– Peter Brook maybe?). Brody not only managed to show up the next month or so when they got the right print, but he even stayed there the night of the wrong print and simply talked to the crowd personally. It was really cool of him, so it’s nice to see not only one of my favorite critics get behind the films, but also a guy who’s genuinely nice and down to earth.

  3. Shamari Stewart Says:

    I’m really glad people are starting to see the light. All they needed was a different star wars movie to hate on (which is pretty sad… but I’ll take it). Unfortunately, it’s too little too late. Lucas has moved on and is now being criticized again for even appearing to be critical of the new star wars movie/disney itself (the “white slaver” controversy). I can’t see them bringing him back unless they fail big time with the next few movies.

    • firebird2110 Says:

      I don’t think they *can* bring him back because he doesn’t want to come back, he’s made that very clear. I also would say that he didn’t simply ‘appeared’ to be critical, he WAS critical, and good on him! The PR dept scripted apology didn’t wash.

      • Shamari Stewart Says:

        I know he was critical. I’m saying that smallest appearance of it was enough to get him in trouble, because he could’ve been WAY more critical than he was. He makes a comment or two against the movie and all of a sudden he’s satan

  4. James Says:

    I miss him too 😥

  5. DarthDeckardJones Says:

    I think there is an intentional confusion about how this trilogy was put together from a story perspective. Kennedy has said that they didn’t “make some wholesale change” in regards to George’s original ideas. I think the look of the film and the sequence of how things happen are certainly different or “retro” but it would not surprise me that if at some point we find out that the backbone of this thing was all George. Clearly Disney’s approach to the marketing of VII was right on the money. You can’t argue the films success and I think a big part of that was to pull people who had left back with the promise of a return to the OT style. I love the Prequels I think they are all George and I find the story he is telling very compelling and applicable to the world we live in. I think it is hilarious that those who said George was a control freak and unwilling to work with others turned out to be completely wrong thanks to the revelations, made this year, from Kasdan and Ron Howard who volunteered that George had approached them to write and direct the prequel films respectively. He also approached Spielberg and Zemeckis to direct according to Howard. They all said to him that he should do it himself. Starting to ramble here but I guess I am just trying to point out that there may be more George in VII than we realize and it may be a long time before we find out the reality of what happened. Disney’s marketing was definitely off putting to those of us who love the prequels but the finished product does not reflect any discrimination towards those films. Sure there could be more references and more may be coming now that they have those who had left back. One final thought Abrams has said that when he came on George’s ideas where already thrown out and that may be true from a certain point of view. However there was a publicity still of Abrams talking with George with Kennedy sitting between them. If George’s ideas where tossed and he had no input on the story what are JJ and George talking about then?

    • lazypadawan Says:

      Sports? Weather?

      All I can say is the prequel backlash is the ghost that is haunting this whole thing, the giant white elephant in the room. While working on a new piece yesterday it really hit me that Disney had a certain marketing goal in mind.

    • Jacobesico Says:

      I haven’t seen The Force Awakens and I have no intention to due to the way that the film was promoted. The real Deserts mantra and the practical, practical, practical rubbish that Disney was sprouting was putting me off but the final straw was how almost every reviewer had to take some snide dig at the prequels.

      The way they promoted the movie was appalling and I’m certainly not going to see the sequels and the spin off films. I’m a fan of the Lucas saga and I’m proud of it.

    • roxam91 Says:

      Completely agree. The marketing of TFA certainly was one big mess. But despite all that… I vowed to judge the movie on its own merits, and I was pleasantly surprised. Ignoring the obvious OT references and retro feel, I truly think some of the stuff George came up with is still there somewhere.

  6. timontatooine Says:

    It really is a tragedy that George Lucas had to basically be kicked out of his creation in order to be appreciated. Don’t get me wrong, I’m happy that more and more of these pieces are coming out of the woodwork, it shows promise for the fandom’s future, but as you say LP, it’s a shame they weren’t around back when they were needed most. Thank goodness for those of us who have loved Lucas from start to finish.

  7. Jonathan Edney Says:

    I don’t know if anyone has seen but there is actually a petition to bring him back for Episode IX! It was started by a Brazilian guy who calls George the ‘Father’ of Star Wars and that he should be brought back to round out this trilogy, replacing Colin Trevorrow.

    As much as I appreciate the sentiment, I don’t think it will have any real impact and to be honest, I don’t think George coming back to direct is a good idea. I wouldn’t say no to him having more input into the direction of the new films however but to be honest, by the time we’ve had Rian Johnson’s Episode VIII, it may be too late to really do anything about where the story is headed. I also think it’s a bit unfair on Trevorrow, who did a great job with Jurassic World (in my mind, while FA was a better film, I enjoyed World more because despite basic similarities to the original Jurassic Park, there was plenty of fresh stuff thrown in too in terms of action and story, plus the way certain parts were shot). I also appreciate Trevorrow because on the special features, he talked about ALL of the films, even saying his favourite moment from the films was from Lost World and there was an appreciation of the three films when discussing the franchise, not just Jurassic Park (though it obviously gets its due reverence). While there was an element of ‘FOR REAL’ with the pre-publicity for World, it wasn’t rammed in our faces as much as it was for Force Awakens.

    I just trust that Rian Johnson will freshen things up a bit while still making it feel like a Star Wars movie, he has gone on record in the past to say ‘there was something really beautiful about the prequels’, which gives me hope, although the film overall will still be more in keeping with the originals look and style. Oh and guess what guys…it will be DARKER! No one saw that coming, right?

    • lazypadawan Says:

      I’ll be honest here…I’m really concerned all we’re getting is a remake of TESB and absolutely no one will mind.

      About that petition; there’s no way Lucas would return to Star Wars as a work for hire, especially since it’ll be a Star Wars built on someone else’s visions, not his. As Shamari pointed out, the only way I’d see him “back” is if they run into trouble and they need him as a consultant.

    • Cristian Martinez Says:

      You need to learn Marketing 101, even that I think that Disney is pushing us to much, first they treat us like trash and now they want our love, Disney want to be loved by all the Star Wars fans and not only the Original Star Wars fans, as I say, Marketing 101, if your first movie fails to bring all the audience that you aimed for (example, if Disney is disappointed that the movie brings less Prequels fans that they expected, seemingly ignoring all the negative campaign against the prequels and the prequels that they made all the year) just order to the next director of your movie say how much he respect and love the prequels, if the Prequels at least feel respected for liking the prequels feeling that the director understand them maybe the next movie would be appreciated by all and not only the majority of the Original Star Wars fans.

      This isn’t the first time that this marketing stunt was used, in other previous movies, mostly sequels, when the studio wanted to reach to a target audience that basically ignored the film that they made even that they were fans of their previous movies made by a different director and studio, they simply order to the new director say how much he loved and liked the source material, even that I think that most of them, the cast, the director or the producers care less about the source material.

    • roxam91 Says:

      Lawrence Kasdan said that Rian Johnson’s plans were weird. And frankly, if a writer whose idea of Star Wars is limited to the OT thinks that Episode VIII will be weird… well, I’m excited to see how this “weird” thing changes things up a bit.

    • jayoungr Says:

      Darker, eh? *sigh* I wish people would stop assuming that we’ll hear “darker” and translate it as “better.”

  8. SWPN Says:

    You know the saying: careful with what you wish for, you might just get it.

    Unfortunately, the bashing was one of the main causes for why Lucas didn’t make the ST himself (the other being his daughter, obviously). Praising the man now, while appreciated, won’t bring him back to Star Wars. That’s something we lost forever, and only the “fans” are to blame.

  9. Rogue 47 Says:

    Look … Lucas makes his trilogies 16 years apart … not a mere 10 … so who’s to say that Lucas will not write the sequels to the sequels? 😀

    • SWPN Says:

      The ST is not his story. Why would he write a sequel to someone else’s story?

      • Rogue 47 Says:

        On the one hand I was joking a little … on the other hand: If Lucas has a story to tell he thinks is worth telling why would he care that someone else wrote the intermediate parts? I think he is beyond that. If he is not doing any more Star Wars ever (because let’s face it … he has announced that he wouldn’t so many times and still given enough time he would come back) then it is because he has other interesting stories to tell and wants to focus on those.

  10. Anthony Echevarria Says:

    It’s nice to see more pieces defending Lucas, although I disagree with that second critic about Yoda and Palpatine. I could have watched 15 minutes more of that battle, because it was the first time we had ever seen those two powerhouses battling it out on screen.

    I also disagree with his assessment about Return of the Jedi, because that was my favorite of the series up until ROTS. I like when stories like that take themselves seriously, instead of making everything out to be a joke. Parody is fine, and the view of A New Hope as near-parody is new to me (Although it should be said I don’t like parody at all in my stories; spoof is more palatable, and satire definitely takes the cake), but there is a time and place for humor and you have to take the story seriously sometimes. Some of the times when “Farscape” failed the most was when it slid too much into humor. It says something that “Lexx”, which was supposed to be a mainly humorous series from the start, actually played best when it took the story seriously. Irony of ironies.

    Interesting reading, but that second critic seems to be missing the point, even as he mounts a credible defense of the prequels. I know that’s just a small part of his article, but it bristled on my nerves for me.

    • lazypadawan Says:

      Overall I think he misses the point of the saga but it’s kind of like the movie critic who hated every Star Wars film except for ROTS and in that case, he wished there were more scenes like the one where Palpatine is talking to Anakin in the opera house instead of the action scenes. There’s a weird part of me who finds such critics, even though they don’t quite “get” the movies, far more intellectually honest than supposed geeks or nerds who claim they do “get” the movies (but really don’t).

  11. lovelucas Says:

    LP – my favorite post ever. I feel exactly the same way but can never express the same feelings as eloquently and completely (remembering everything) as you do. We all knew that when TFA would be released it would present opportunities for further condemnation to the prequels, to Hayden Christensen and to George Lucas. They were salivating – those haters were. They had the knives sharpened. It feels to me very much like Order 66 – and we have survived that massacre – I believe that George has too thanks to those who really believe in him like Jett. His tweet was my #1 most memorable of the year. I can’t tell you how good it made me feel that it was what we thought it was but George and his family always knew and I love love love that this tweet had to give even the haters time to pause and think what has been lost.

  12. Cristian Martinez Says:

    Not only articles, if you search Youtube under Force Awakens Sucks, you would find videos like Force Awakens Sucks Or How I learned to love The Phantom Menace, and, Force Awakens Sucks, The Prequels were Better, and it seems that people not only beginning to see how The Prequels were good in their own way, but beginning to loath the reviewers that give Force Awakens a “positive” reviews, because you not need to be a five years old to see how dumbed down the plot is or how much fanservices have, and of course, to see the Mary Sue, I trough that fanboys were stupid, but maybe I was wrong in underestimating some people.

    • Anthony Echevarria Says:

      I was really disappointed in Rey. I was desperately wanting a strong female protagonist, because we haven’t really seen that type of character in the lead in the movies before. Yes, we’d seen several female Jedi before, in the prequels, but they weren’t really important to the story. I really wanted to see a female Jedi as the main character, taking the lead position from the men. Instead we got…oh, J.J. Instead she was too overpowered. I really wanted to see a female character rise to become Luke’s new prodigy. But it had to be done right.

      Heck, one of my all-time favorite characters is Serra Keto, who only appears in the “Revenge of the Sith” video game and one comic book! 😛 Why? I have to wonder what would have happened if she had managed to beat Anakin in that duel, or at least held him back, while some of the other Jedi escaped, instead of falling to him in that duel. Or if she and Cin Drallig had teamed up, and beaten him into submission. The possibilities of what would have happened, and how things could have gone differently, are endless. That’s one of the things I like in storytelling. 🙂

      Yeah, I want female Jedi in the lead. But they have to be developed as characters, not just stand-ins for the fans. I really hope they develop Rey more as the series progresses, and that Rian Johnson does a lot better job with characterization than J.J. “Shallow Visuals” Abrams. But hey, when you start at the bottom, there’s nowhere to go but up! 😉

      • jayoungr Says:

        I’m hoping we’ll learn that Rey actually had some prior training that she’s forgotten (or suppressed). But with that said, she’s really not any worse than Ezra in Rebels, IMHO.

      • Bob Clark Says:

        I don’t think that Rey being overpowered is necessarily a bad thing. But she needs a conflict that tests something other than her physical powers if she is to really be a well developed character. Many have likened her to various Miyazaki heroes and heroines, who likewise tend to be preturnaturally skilled in a ridiculous amount of stuff. But Miyazaki tests his protagonists on moral and social terms, first and foremost. Think of Princess Mononoke, where he sets up a conflict between environmentalism and human progress in ways that make both sides look at times noble and brutal, making it a real challenge for the hero, Ashitaka, to try and broker a peace between them. Even Lucas put Anakin through emotional conflicts that were more challenging to him than any mere army. Rey needs a more ambiguous moral battleground than the OT heroes if she’s going to be anything more than a much needed, but paper thin cipher of female empowerment.

  13. ladylavinia1932 Says:

    I also think it’s a bit unfair on Trevorrow, who did a great job with Jurassic World (in my mind, while FA was a better film, I enjoyed World more because despite basic similarities to the original Jurassic Park, there was plenty of fresh stuff thrown in too in terms of action and story, plus the way certain parts were shot).

    For the reasons you just outlined, I feel that “Jurassic World” was the better film.

  14. andywylde77 Says:

    Oh I think Mr. Lucas is laughing his *** off right now! Seeing JJ come out and basically say that TFA is a rip off of ANH. Well Mr. Lucas knows full well that Disney and company gave the fans exactly what they wanted. Now since TFA is making huge bank off of ripping off its own series and nostalgia, do people think that the makers of the following films will have any incentive to try anything new or inventive? I don’t think so.

    So when I first watched this film it being a SW film had me seeing the good things about it. But now since some time has passed, I am seeing this for what it really is, a soulless cash grab rip off nostalgia piece of trash. Disney and company can have the rest of the garbage they plan on puking out every year. I only care about the Lucas era of SW. The REAL SW!

  15. andywylde77 Says:

    And I am having such a great time watching some clowns bash the OT to make the TFA look good and vice versa. Me being a saga fan am just sitting back with my popcorn watching the fireworks go off!

    Now there are people claiming that Kylo Ren is better than Vader? WTF! To me Davey Jones(POTC) is a better villain than Kylo Ren. And that is serious to.

    • JustinJL Says:

      Davy Jones: Do you fear death!!!

    • Noah Evans (The Artist) Says:

      Hans from Frozen is a villain who I feel was not developed well, or could’ve just NOT been a villain (Frozen had the chance to be a Disney fairy tale film without a villain. But, we can’t make the writers at Disney & Pixar think too hard or consider a non-one-sided story for once)… but, even he and Duke Mustache were better villains than Kylo.

      • Anthony Echevarria Says:

        A little detail here. Frozen was not developed by Pixar. If it had, that character probably would have been developed better. To show a comparison, I watched “Brave” and “Frozen” almost sequentially, one after the other in those two days. I thought “Brave” was by far the superior film. Yet “Frozen” is the one that has become engrained in the collective consciousness. “Brave” is regarded as a great film, that is one of Pixar’s lesser efforts. That film does have a well developed main character, and even the villain has a side that the audience does not expect.

      • JustinJL Says:

        As much as Disney and Lucasfilm pumped this character. (To encourage sales of their products) He fell very short of expectation. IGN did a end of year podcast, and just raved about Kylo Ren, about how that is the villain, they have been looking for. Really? That is the villain that they were looking for? A villain that is all bark and no bite. Sullen,and moody, with temper tantrums? No coldness, no calculation. The first time I watched him hacking away at a control console with his lightsaber I thought it as cool. The second time when he hacked at the interrogation chair, I thought that was way over the top. Hopefully will a little more fleshed out. I just have my trepidations.

      • andywylde77 Says:

        LOL Good point!

      • Marshall Says:

        It’s amazing. Anakin throws one object in frustration and he’s accused of being whiny and annoying. Kylo Ren angrily wrecks billions of credits in property and he’s hailed as a great villain. It boggles the mind.

    • JustinJL Says:

      People claim Kylo Ren is better than Vader? O.k. stop the train, I want to get off. LOL.

  16. jayoungr Says:

    Thanks for the links to the articles! But was anyone else really annoyed at how the author of that first one kept saying all of Lucas’ skills were “slipping” in the prequels? Talk about a back-handed compliment!

    • Hunk a Junk Says:

      I was too. That’s the author trying to maintain some “street cred” since he’s obviously taking a position that goes against the accepted conventional wisdom for the last 15 years. It’s the defensive crouch of someone (justifiably) expecting hateboy pushback.

  17. Cristian Martinez Says:

    “I’m hoping we’ll learn that Rey actually had some prior training that she’s forgotten (or suppressed). But with that said, she’s really not any worse than Ezra in Rebels, IMHO.”

    Actually that is just speculation of the Original Star Wars fans, because the movie don’t give any exposition whatsoever over hints of Rey past, like any other normal movie with a better plot would do, she is just a Mary Sue character, and she was created to fit the public desire of what they need her to be, she is basically a blank page, in the next movie, after Disney make countless polls see what the Original Star Wars fans want for Rey and what is the most popular speculation for her character is, that would become the plot of the next movie, the same thing would happen to Ben Solo, he is just a blank page to fill in by the wild and stupid ideas of the Original Star Wars fans.

    • andywylde77 Says:

      Yeah you pretty much summed it all up. I don’t even care for the next films at this point. But I know they will pull some hand wavy garbage about Rey and her “skills” I did try to give TFA a chance but it came up short for me. I have no interest at this point for any of the new characters. The old characters were bastardized by JJ and company. So for this old school fan they really made a train wreck out of the SW universe right out the gate!

      So for me TFA is the last stop on the SW train for this long time fan. I will just enjoy all the Lucas era material I have an go on about my life. Because I can only laugh when I see others say how “this movie(TFA) was basically a rehash/reboot of the OT, but the next movies will explain more”

      That to me is complete insanity that these people are praising a reboot disguised as a sequel and think that the next movies “will explain” everything that occurred in TFA? Well I can only tell them to not hold their breath while waiting for further explanations in episode 8.

      Disney is no doubt riding the wave of nostalgia and making bookoo bucks in the process. I mean TFA was almost a nostalgia fest alone. Just think of how Rouge One and the spinoffs will be? And the spinoffs are being made mostly for the nostalgia factor.

      Oh and here is another funny bit of info: Rouge One will have a Death Star in it! Anyone feeling all Death Star’d out?

      • JustinJL Says:

        When I saw the Starkiller base, Iam thinking, “Wow! How original was that?” The answer to that question is, it wasn’t THAT original. I mean take out the words, “rebellion”and “empire” and exchange it with “resistance”and “new order” and it does appear ( to me at least) that they are rehashing the OT. I like Disneyland, and their animation, but in terms of handling the business side Disney falls woefully short. I remember watching a biography on Jim Henson, and Disney didn’t treat him that well either.

      • andywylde77 Says:

        Yeah I still like Disney itself, but they are letting their “suits” call the shots. The suits of Disney are just sending orders down to Kennedy and she then has the makers do what upper management tells her to do. Yes originality is a huge piece missing from this film. And JJ and Kasdan basically came out and said that they did this on purpose and called it “a love letter to the fans” I am sorry but it was a reboot to fool fans.

        But the people in charge now know that playing it safe is the best way to go as seeing this film is raking in tons of cash. So if playing it safe and taking no chances brings in the big dollars, well that would mean that playing it safe for all the other new SW films would be the right way to handle them, No?

        So all I can say is that imagination and true creative freedom will not be seen in SW again.

      • JustinJL Says:

        Iam BEYOND Death Star’d out. Then again, Iam just jaded. Once I’ve seen something that devestating on the big screen, I would hope that they would come up with something a little more stealthy, elusive, yet deadly.

      • andywylde77 Says:

        And I have a strange feeling that in RO that they will somehow manage to make the DS be used to blow up something as a pre test test of its capabilities. Even though the test run was established in episode 4.

        But hey, IT’S NOSTALGIA!

      • lazypadawan Says:

        Rouge One? Is it about drag queens, now?

        You know what my theory is about Rey? Not only she is Luke’s daughter, she is the daughter of two people powerful in the Force, which would serve to be an explanation of her above average-ness. My issue with how Rey was written wasn’t so much she’s a Mary Sue (ask me again if she turns out to be some random chick out to save the Skywalkers from themselves and usurp their position as the focus of the series) but that the writers completely disregarded how Lucas set things up with his protagonists in previous films. Luke pulls of great feats by rescuing Princess Leia and destroying the Death Star but you don’t see him taking on Darth Vader in a lightsaber duel (and when he does, Vader hands it to him). Anakin pulls off great feats by winning the pod race and destroying the droid control ship, yet you don’t see him pick up a lightsaber and fight Darth Maul. And yes, the first time he tries to fight a Sith Lord, he gets it handed to him. Rey goes from “WTF is the Force” to using the mind trick, resisting Kylo’s mind probe, and not only surviving more than 30 seconds against someone with training, manages to score some damage. Perhaps Rey has been trained and can’t remember it until it pops out of her subconscious but even so, the girl’s been out of practice for at least 10 years. And really, if Rey’s arc is meant to rhyme with Anakin’s or Luke’s, she should’ve been the one to slay the dragon so to speak by taking out Death Star III, er Starkiller Base. Instead her role was, “OMG, you killed Han Solo! You bastard!” 😉 The other thing is Luke and Anakin had goals and aspirations. Aside from Rey’s desire to want to go back to Jakku for some reason and abandonment issues, I have no idea what she wants out of life. Even wanting to get married and have babies is something if not terribly PC. I also had little sense of harmatia (aside from abandonment issues), traits that could be tragic if she made the wrong choices. Without them, you’d never worry for a second she’d turn to the Dark Side or walk away from the whole thing or gets into a gross incestuous relationship with her possible/likely cousin.

        As for the old school crew, that bothers me the more I think about it :P.

        Nostalgia pays and clearly Disney’s “strategery” worked, so it makes me doubtful there will be any further “evolution” in the series no matter what anyone says. As I joked above, I expect a remake of TESB.

      • andywylde77 Says:

        Exactly! I was just commenting about imagination and risk taking being gone from SW. But I have seen so much crap about people putting down Luke and Anakin to justify Rey. It blows my mind! I mean in the OT and PT we are beaten over the head of why Luke and Anakin were good at what they did. Rey? I have no clue as to what her goals are and motivations as well. But the more I think about making sense of this movie the more it hurts my brain. They really fumbled this movie big time!

      • JustinJL Says:

        The idea of spinoff just seems…odd to me. Disney likes doing all these spinoffs with Marvel as well. Are we going to be saturated with spinoffs? Just doing nostalgia for nostalgia’s sake, or to please a certain segment of SW is just holding back new concepts and ideas.

      • andywylde77 Says:

        Yeah it seems that the spinoffs in particular are being done for the sake of nostalgia pretty much. Rouge One will have all the old OT imagery like storm troopers, rebels, Tie fighters, Xwings, Imperial officers etc. It is just a nostalgia wank fest. I mean the whole plot is pretty boring. This is just to show OT images and make bank on the nostalgia crowd.

      • Noah Evans (The Artist) Says:

        I believe, know for a fact in fact that spin-offs and the amount of spin-offs will wash away not only what makes Star Wars special, but rot the freshness out of the series’ soul (which can be argued that it’s becoming hollow, but then again, one can always revisit 1-6 and enjoy the story without the inclusion of Disney’s addition). It is tragic irony that Lucas’ art is labeled by the media as “a corporate sell-out” while Disney’s corporate sell-out is titled “fresh good old stuff”….. I have no idea about you all, but I’ll be avoiding Rogue One in the theaters and on DVD (it doesn’t even look like Star Wars, it looks like Agents of SHIELD in a Titan AE setting)

      • andywylde77 Says:

        Yep spot on about the corporate sell out stuff. Lucas never “sold out” as some clowns to think. Disney though sold out big time. So at this point for me all that matters is the Lucas era SW. The Disney era SW is just for the money. They have already proven that with TFA. They have no interest in adding to the mythology or lore of the true SW universe.

    • jayoungr Says:

      “Actually that is just speculation of the Original Star Wars fans, because the movie don’t give any exposition whatsoever over hints of Rey past, like any other normal movie with a better plot would do, she is just a Mary Sue character”

      I’m the one who posted the sentence you quoted, and I wouldn’t call myself an Original Star Wars fan–I am here, after all! ^_^ It’s just that my personal theory about Rey is that she’ll turn out to have been one of Luke’s former trainees.

      I think TFA is trying to turn Rey’s past into a big mysterious mystery, with further details probably to be revealed in future installments. YMMV on whether that was a good decision or not.

      And as for being a Mary Sue, I still say she’s no worse than Ezra in Rebels. Maybe that’s just the Disney-era take on what Force talent looks like (picture me rolling my eyes a bit).

      • jayoungr Says:

        PS, finding out that Rey had some actual Force training at some time in her life would make her Mary Sueish in my eyes, since she’d have some reason for being able to do what she does.

      • jayoungr Says:

        Oops, I guess I can’t edit comments; I meant to say it would make her LESS Mary Sueish.

      • lazypadawan Says:

        Or at least less likely to be a Mary Sue.

        What defines a Mary Sue or a Gary Stu seems to have been lost among people who don’t understand where the term originated and why. A Sue or a Stu was an idealized avatar of the fan fiction author who got to do all of the cool stuff in whatever universe and managed to win the affections, or at least the bedroom machinations, of whomever was the author’s big crush. The most obnoxious thing about those kinds of characters was how they made the canon all about them. You know you’ve got a Sue/Stu on your hands when that character is out for power: better at magic than Harry Potter, Legolas’s super gorgeous elf true love who’s so awesome at everything everybody wishes she’d been part of the Fellowship, the greatest captain of Starfleet ever who not only beat the Kobayashi Maru conundrum but turned it into a pretzel, the “real” Chosen One instead of Anakin Skywalker, the real secret genius behind The Avengers and Captain America’s true love, etc..

      • Cristian Martinez Says:

        I virtually ignored Rebels since had come out, I see it as betrayal of a successful cartoon that was The Clone Wars that had actually serious themes like politics, corruption, money on politics, religion, Rebels is like a test of TFA for the audience, if the old and over used themes of Rebels against the Evil Empire still is popular, and seeing how much the U. S. audience love to see themselves as the Rebels against the Evil Empire, even that now they have become the Empire, it seems that the Original Star Wars fans continue to over obsess with it.

        I known that Star Wars universe is escapism, but there is a difference between a fantasy and watch something purely of escapism, is like the Original Star Wars fans don’t want to live in the real world and see what their country had become.

        Back to Rey, I had see many other movies with a main characters that have a mysterious past, never the less, there is always plenty other characters that give exposition about the main character past or who she had been, not in TFA, there is nothing, one things is making a mysterious character well, and other things is desirability making a blank page character, a Mary Sue, in some ways, Rey is not different from Bella Swan, hell, she even have two males characters with her, now we have to wait to the next movie to them fight for her, hell, even one of them is black,

      • Marshall Says:

        Or maybe three. Uh oh, I sense a Team Finn/Team Poe/Team Kylo war brewing. Head for the hills!

      • jayoungr Says:

        Yes, I know where the term Mary Sue originated. ^_^ But it also gets used in a looser sense for characters who are supposed to charm you with their wonderfulness and only end up irritating you instead. Maybe calling those cases “oversold characters” would be clearer?

      • jayoungr Says:

        Marshall: I very much fear you are right!

      • lisse Says:

        @Cristian Martinez I agree. I’m giving Rey room to improve but she certainly didn’t grab my love like her SW female counterparts did or my interest like Poe or Finn did tbh. I wish she did but she didn’t. I fully agree with your points about Rebel vs Empire, too, as well as your reading of US audiences. The gospel truth tbh.

  18. JustinJL Says:

    Iam just concerned that Disney is going to do a scorched Earth strategy, where the OT Characters get wiped out mercilessly, and the new generation is integrated into the canon of SW. If that is their strategy, then just do a new trilogy without the original cast. I don’t think I can handle the eradication of the OT , just to satiate Disney’s, OT fans and Current Lucasfilm creators’ desires.

  19. JustinJL Says:

    I just think Abrams lacks subtlety. It is just shock and see with no regard to easing the audience into the story.

    • JustinJL Says:

      Sorry for my lack of eloquence, there is too much shock and awe, and not fleshing out the story. Sorry I am still scarred after watching Cloverfield.

  20. Hunk a Junk Says:

    In reading these articles, as well as the glowing reviews for TFA that almost all have obligatory swipes at the PT, I keep coming back to LP’s earlier “Please Don’t…” post about PT fans avoiding unnecessary negativity. Frankly, I’m struggling with this because I think it’s virtually impossible now to separate the fan experience from Star Wars content. The fan reaction to both the SEs and the PT — specifically the organized campaign to discredit Lucas (Kaminski’s “Secret History of Star Wars” nonsense) and “take back” Star Wars from the guy who created it — is directly responsible for Lucas leaving and the type of stories Disney is now choosing to make. Unfortunately, the fans ARE the story now and have been since 1997. More and more I think it’s simply impossible to separate the two and not discuss content without referring to fan involvement. TFA is proof that fan demands, no matter how right, wrong, justified or petty, are now the guiding force in the saga — which is what George was sadly referring to when he said, “It’s the movie fans have wanted.” Obviously, LP is right that we don’t want to just react to every hateboy smear on the Internet — that would be a full time job — but what has happened can’t be ignored. It’s really unprecedented. An artist made a work of art, built it into something wildly successful, but he was then forced out by an organized fan effort based on the mistaken belief that THEY, not the ARTIST, somehow owned the material. Then once they chased the artist away, embraced new works created intentionally to recreate the original art. Watching TFA and listening to fan reactions is like going to see a cover band and having idiots in the audience gushing, “Finally! Someone is playing my favorite songs the RIGHT way!” Like many of you, I’m still sifting through what all this means, but I’m certain of one thing: TFA is not art. Star Wars as an artistic expression ended the day George Lucas sold it to Disney.

    • lazypadawan Says:

      There is something I have to say about all of this, actually two somethings, that I will post eventually when the time is right. While working on one of them, I came to a realization that would’ve made me drop my pencil had I been writing it long form instead of typing it.

    • Noah Evans (The Artist) Says:

      You’re allegory about the Artists isn’t just a great perspective on the matter, but one of my favorite remarks about the current dilemma!

  21. darth66zannah Says:

    I think TFA was a good thing for Star Wars. I love how youtube is now filled with dozens of videos of people blasting TFA and saying they now appreciate the PT. I love how fans of the old EU can claim that the books were better. I am glad TFA won some disgruntled fans back. AND I love that people genuinely love TFA.

    But the best part is that people are finally realizing how great Lucas really was

    I think TFA is good for SW because it creates more diversity of opinion. Now we don’t just have a PT fans vs. OT fans thing anymore. Now there is different fan bases…which is good for PT fans because now we have more people that apprecite the PT and/or can focuses their dislikes on Disneys SW.

    Of course in a perfect world all SW fans could get along but after the PT era I know that will never happen.

    And I just want to say that I really like TFA and think that some of you are getting into the “hater” mode. I enjoy listening to all the criticsm people have against the film but to me it’s all in the eye of the beholder. Don’t turn into a hater like the PT hateboys.

    I thought TFA was a classic representation of the hero’s journey like the original. People say it ripped off ANH but I think it is very different (except for the Starkiller base; YES that did suck and is the only thing I dislike about the film), i loved Rey and Finn.

    As far as the plot holes go people need to realize that this movie is literally Star Wars meets JJ’s Lost TV show. So much unexplained and little hints that are ambiguous throughout the film just to leave you mouth watering for the sequel.

    And I am kind of glad that Disney didn’t follow the old EU. Now I LOVE the EU but I think it is cool now that I have 2 time lines to follow and that I can compare the 2. And Disney is definitely borrowing from the old EU. Kylo Ren/ Ben Solo’s story is very similar to Jacen Solo’s.

    Please guys, don’t be haters and enjoy TFA. Yes Death Star 3 blows but there is a lot of great stuff in this film. Themes that are classic SW.

    • hansolo1138 Says:

      Good post! As I have said before, we can’t become like Anakin and become the very thing we swore to destroy.

    • Cristian Martinez Says:

      I love science fiction, and I like Star Wars, specially the Prequels, never the less, I never would let that blind myself of the flaws of the Prequels and the Original Trilogy, and even less of Force Awakens, if I wanted to see a movie were it necessary to shut my brain off to enjoy it I would see a Michael Bay movie, I not worship blindly a movie like the Original Star Wars fans.

      I think for much that we wish to be united as a whole fandom, we need to see that we are a house divided, there are the Original Star Wars fans, there are the Prequels fans, and they are the Force Awakens fans, that are in their majority Original Star Wars fans, if we think that we are all in the same boat with this movie we are being naive.

      And I always have been of the opinion that Prequels fans need to be far more aggressive defending the Prequels, and posting more thing in the mainstream media to show that we aren’t crybabies that hide under our mother skirts, it passed nearly two decades without any Prequel fans doing a serious and open attack to the Original Star Wars fans, that do serious damage and humiliate them, like they humiliate us, and that need to change.

      This movie is the perfect opportunity to do this, because the majority of the Original Star Wars fans love this movie, after all it was made for them, and now that the Pandora Box it open and people beginning to question this movie, and by association Disney, the Original Star Wars fans and the Youtube Reviewers that give a positive review to this movie, and beginning to bash them.

      Our best opportunity is make this new trilogy fall down to the ground and watch how the Original Star Wars fans crumble into tears, by being in our high horse we are being as arrogant as they are. The fact that we didn’t do nothing in years made us vulnerable to attacks and they don’t waste no time in doing it, maybe it time to turn the table.

      • hansolo1138 Says:

        Tearing down THIS trilogy in favor of the old one!? That doesn’t sound familiar at all, does it? Oh, wait…

        I’m actually starting to get tired of repeating my favorite line from my favorite scene in my favorite SW movie: “Now you have become the very thing you swore to destroy.”

        Of all of this site’s members, Mr. Martinez, you in particular have been particularly negative towards this movie. You are treating it the way hateboys treated Episode I. The only thing missing here is a bunch of keyboard crusaders who feel the way you do about the film, spreading negative feedback about the movie throughout the Internet until your opinion seems to be the dominant one.

        I respect your opinion and your right to feel that way about the movie in the same way I respect the hateboys’ rights to feel the way they do about the Prequels. I do NOT, however respect their spreading of negativity about the film, just as I do not respect the plans you have to “make this new trilogy fall down to the ground.”

        I’m sure you were afraid that TFA would be a PT bash-fest. Then you were angry when you saw it and felt that it was subpar compared to previous SW films. Now, you hate the film. Fear led to anger, anger led to hate, and I don’t need to tell you what comes next.

        Star Wars is ultimately just a movie series A brilliant story, and a stunning work of art, but a movie series nonetheless. There is no reason for us to try to tear anything about Star Wars down, no matter who may be in charge.

      • Marshall Says:

        I wouldn’t tear down TFA but I wouldn’t praise it either because there’s nothing to praise. There really isn’t a need to tear down this film to build up the prequels because it’s doing that on it’s own. Go to the IMDB reviews for TFA, or read the comments section to any Star Wars article on Yahoo and you’ll find some very disappointed fans – some who’ve hated the prequels but now realize that the grass is always greener in someone else’s pasture – Lucas’. I have no gripe about what direction Disney’s taking with the franchise because I have such a treasure trove of Star Wars pre-2012. My only complaint is the lack of diverse merchandise. I haven’t seen one good action figure lately and the only recent SW stuff I’ve bought is two shopping bags with OT and PT characters from Target.

      • Adam D. Bram (The Nilbog) Says:

        The mainstream geekdom is already calling us hypocrites for having our reasonable criticisms. Don’t prove them right by using their tactics.

        Most of us have been very good about that, but I have seen a few worrying comments (mostly from Mr./Ms.?/Yogi Martinez).

      • Bob Clark Says:

        I don’t really believe in tearing something down just to prop something else up, but if I see something that I think is of poor quality, I’m not necessarily going to keep my mouth shut about it, especially when its poor quality stands in direct comparison of what I thought was better about something else. Like it or not, but TFA has a very different set of styles and aesthetic values than the Prequels, and I think that if you want to reasonably give criticism of this new movie it makes a certain amount of sense to include those older ones in your argument. I’m weighing on whether or not to actually write something myself, because I don’t want to go out of my way to rain on somebody else’s parade. But the stormclouds remain…

    • roxam91 Says:

      Great to see another admirer of TFA here. Not to single anyone out, but reading all the negative comments here, I can’t help but feel a sense of deja vu.

      • Hunk a Junk Says:

        Yes, there have been negative comments about TFA, and I’ve certainly contributed a few, but here’s the difference between the OT hateboys and the people here critical of TFA: we haven’t been bitching about the movie for 16 years straight. TFA has been out less than a month. If we’re still bitching about this movie in 15 years, we’ll still be taking the high road in comparison to what PT fans have endured! 🙂

      • Marshall Says:

        Another difference between PT haters and TFA haters is that PT haters attack those who see the artistic merit of the prequels. Anyone who expresses a love for TFA, I just shrug it off and say nothing.

      • Hunk a Junk Says:

        Good point, Marshall. I’ve criticized the film (and it WAS shot on FILM, isn’t THAT awesome!!! Except that it was then transferred to digital for post-production and then released digitally to theaters so really the whole “shot on film” thing is just another marketing gimmick) but never those who enjoyed it. No one is wrong for liking TFA even though I find SOOOOOO much wrong with it.

      • Adam D. Bram (The Nilbog) Says:

        My formal review goes up in the next day or two, but there are things I loved, things I hated, things that wouldn’t bother me had people not built it up to be more than it was, and things that I can’t judge without a rewatch and/or added context from VIII and IX.

        And I hold nothing against people who had overwhelming experiences one way or another and don’t bthink they should agree with me on everything, I just don’t personally understand it.

      • jayoungr Says:

        I have a feeling some of that is due to the fact that most of the mainstream net is SO deliriously happy with TFA. This seems like a safe place where we can actually gripe about it. I didn’t hate TFA, but I feel like criticizing it in most places online is akin to defending the sequels in most places online. (If this article is right, that may change once the newness wears off; people may be able to look at TFA’s strengths and weaknesses in a calmer manner without anyone getting hysterical.)

      • roxam91 Says:

        You know, I remember the same exact thing with ROTS. I can’t remember hearing one negative thing about it back then. Now though, it’s constantly bashed. And if I’m not mistaken, it’s the same deal with JJ’S Star Trek (more so the first one). I feel TFA will face a similar fate.

  22. Anthony Echevarria Says:

    In a moment of clarity, I think I’ve finally figured out the title for my eventual review of “The Force Awakens”…

    “Like a vampire from Buffy the Vampire Slayer, pretty and sensual on the outside, vacant and soulless on the inside…” ;-D

    I don’t think that’s too harsh. I think more than anything else, that is the biggest problem of this movie. There simply isn’t any heart in it. We can argue all day about story details, whether Kylo Ren can be redeemed, the [new] Death Star, etc., but the bottom line is that these people just don’t have any passion or heart for the series It’s quickly becoming apparent that George Lucas was the heart of Star Wars. As great as some of those EU stories were, they copied a lot of things from him, in an attempt to copy his heart. Leia taking a moment to worry about her children with the Noghri, Yoda having a humorous encounter with a droid in the ‘fresher room…things both dramatic and humorous came from him, and the mood that he fostered in the movies before. Without him, the whole thing just feels vacant, and empty of true emotion. It’s superficial; it’s got a lot of pretty exteriors, but there’s nothing underneath. 😦 If there’s one good thing about this, I’m glad that Lucas the artist is starting to get some recognition again, at least from some sources. Better late than never. 😛

    So, that’s my feelings on the matter. 🙂 I’m sure some will disagree, but I can’t bring myself to enjoy a movie knowing that there’s nothing underneath it’s hollow exterior. At least as much as the previous movies; it is still a serviceable science fiction movie. If it helps, I went into it prepared to think of it as “Alternate Universe #3”. 8-D Come to think of it, I can’t help but wonder what Roger Ebert would think of the new Star Wars movie, seeing as how he loved Episode III. He put it right up there with “Return of the King” giving it the same three and a half stars rating he gave the other film. (And I love “Return of the King”, so that’s high praise indeed. I think they’re both great, in their own ways. No bashing on Tolkien to elevate “Sith”, guys. ;-D I’m just making a point.) Another reason the guy left us too early. He never got to review the new Superman movie, and he never got to give us his thoughts on this one, either. :-/

    • hansolo1138 Says:

      Yeah, I wish Man of Steel (one of my favorite comic book movies ever) didn’t get the TPM treatment by fans and critics alike.

      • Stefan Kraft Says:

        off-topic, but still: Interestingly, Man of Steel seems to be quite popular with female superhero fans. The PT has also always had a large female “geek girl” fanbase.

  23. Cristian Martinez Says:


    Actually it nothing personal against the movie, it more against the Original Star Wars, if they bashed this movie with equal force as the Prequels, I wouldn’t a problem, to me another mindless flick to see in the weekend.

    But the Original Star Wars love this movie, they praise the movie, make any excuses for the movie, and they are the whole reason why this movie exist in first place, it not against the movie it against the Original Star Wars fans. And if you think that is US VS THEM, yeah, it US VS THEM, we cant fool ourselves pretending that the whole Fandom is united and that everyone spread love and kisses, no, not after the last seventeen years, it time that the Original Star Wars fans take some of their own medicine, and have some poetic justice, they did our jab very easy for us.

    And this isn’t about what Trilogy is better, I like the whole trilogy, but my problem is with the Original attitude to everything that isn’t the OT, they spend to many years on top, to many years telling everyone else what to think and what to like, that why I say that we need to be aggressive, as they were aggressive with them, we need to stop this passive attitude, and let them pass over us, we need to bring them down, and now their favourite toy is this movie, that make them remember their nice, little nostalgia, destroying this trilogy, to finally humiliate the Original Star Wars fans like they humiliate us is the best justice that we can have, we would bring them down of their high horse and teach them some humility.

    • hansolo1138 Says:

      But my point still stands. It seems as if you are seeking revenge, which is, pardon the expression, not the Jedi Way. I would still defend the PT against hateboys given the opportunity, but I would never seek a fight with them. I would simply defend the films that I love, and end the argument with “I respectfully disagree with your opinion.”

      Besides, should general public opinion on the Star Wars Prequels really affect your enjoyment of the Saga? Maybe, just maybe, it doesn’t matter in the long run.

    • lazypadawan Says:

      Recently I’ve come to the conclusion these people really, REALLY are not worth my time. If something’s not bringing out the best in you or making you happy, it’s time to take a walk. So I’ve dropped out of a lot of fandom. Yes it sucks these kinds of fans are driving the bus now but I’m trying to do something positive for the prequels and for Lucas, and for the fans left who care. I have another project up my sleeve I hope to announce in the near future.

  24. darth66zannah Says:

    i thnk TFA has deep themes. Rey doesn’t want to face her true destiny and still trying to cling on to a false dream, Finn renouncing his old ways and finding a path, Kylo Ren being tormented by his parentage. Look beyond all the X Wings and obvious OT stuff. I love all the new looking aliens too! Maz Kannada feels like Lucas could have made her.

    • Bob Clark Says:

      There’s stuff that could work if you weren’t choking on all the nostalgia. Rey’s denial would be interesting if we actually had a sense of her motivations, why she’s avoiding it. And it would actually add weight to the way she’s preturnaturally skilled at everything, and keep the whole Mary Sue quotient at bay. But since we never really go too deep into her character, her denial just comes off as childish fear and nothing more. It’s the sort of thing a character overcomes in the first act or two, not spends the entire movie on. You don’t spend a whole movie waiting for Neo to choose the Red Pill.

      • darth66zannah Says:

        “Your focus becomes your reality.” Your analyzing this thing like its suppose to me Hamlet too much for me. But I respect your opinion and it’s good for Star Wars. Cheers

    • hansolo1138 Says:

      I also like how Finn spends 2/3 of the film believing that he is a coward because of his actions in fleeing the First Order and going on the run with Rey and BB-8, only to later learn that he committed one of the bravest acts of any character in the saga, and then he almost immediately undertakes a highly dangerous mission to rescue his friend. Great stuff.

  25. ladylavinia1932 Says:

    I just finished watching “ATTACK OF THE CLONES”. Never understood the negativity toward this movie in particular. Watching it kept reminding me why I had fallen in love with it, when I first saw it back in 2002.

    • Anthony Echevarria Says:

      It’s funny, because IGN gave it an 8 when it first came out on DVD, and they are notorious prequel haters. They said that minus Anakin and Padme’s dialogue, it was everything you could want in a Star Wars movie. I think people form their own opinions at first, and then feel compelled to join the crowd. Which is sad, really. We can’t even have our own opinions anymore, sometimes.

      • Adam D. Bram (The Nilbog) Says:

        That’s one of the reasons I originally wanted to see the film a second time before reviewing it, but my financial situation wouldn’t allow it, so I added a section of things that required a second look before I formed a full opinion.

    • Kim Says:

      I love every moment of AOTC! It has such a dreamlike, painterly quality. The criticism of Anakin and Padme’s relationship/dialogue that makes me laugh is that it’s not “realistic”; as if any movie relationship/dialogue is “realistic”. I enjoy witty banter as much as the next person, but that doesn’t occur in reality with any regularity. I can also enjoy the more formal, awkward and heartfelt first steps towards a relationship by Anakin and Padme.

    • Jacobesico Says:

      Attack of The Clones is such a beautiful movie. I’ve never had any issues with it.

    • LadyJediScientist Says:

      Clones is actually my favorite Star Wars movie. It gets better with each viewing😍😍😍😍

  26. Jorge Alejandro Laris Pardo Says:

    Well, at least in my case I was growing up all this years without real power to write positive reviews about Lucas work. But I liked it then like I like them now.

  27. Cristian Martinez Says:


    If you want to read negatives comments that are even more acid than mine you should search the videos ranting about Force Awakens, and my work is very minimal compared to them, I only were one of the first to initiate the wave, now I only do the other people do the dirty work, and of course, spark some resentment against Disney here and there putting all the blame in the Original Star Wars fans, not that they didn’t deserve it, after all, we could have a good movie with a coherent plot instead of a fanservices full of nostalgia feast that this movie.

    In 1999 the Original Star Wars fans didn’t have the same internet of high speed that we have now, maybe that is the reason why things are going quickly this time at difference from the past, so much that even Abrams had to admit that Force Awakens was a rip-off of A New Hope, but that isn’t enough.

    And I really don’t care if the Original Star Wars says now that the Prequels are good movies, we passed long time ago from that, and I known that they would prefer to eat their own shit before ever admitting that they were wrong, no, want that from them is naive, now the tactic is simply is of scorched Earth, destroy everything that they are dear from them, make them cry, humiliate them into oblivion, so they cant never forget what happen when you humiliate part of your own fandom, I don’t care if ever destroy their reputation, after all, they gladly destroyed the reputation of the people that worked in the Prequels.

    • hansolo1138 Says:

      *sigh* You REALLY don’t get what I’m trying to get across to you, do you? From your comments on this site, I am getting the feeling that you are becoming a hateboy. You’re just not becoming a hateboy towards the Prequels.

      I am not going to respond to any more of your tirades. I will simply leave this: “When you want to fight fire with fire, remember that the fire department usually uses water.”

    • lazypadawan Says:

      I think we’ve got to remember this is a pro-prequel site not an anti-something else site. I have my criticisms of TFA, I hate that it was used as a weapon by some media idiots and professional geeks and “fans” against Lucas, I hated the dishonest “practical effects” dog whistle campaign, and I learned a lot of shocking and depressing truths about fandom in the process.

      But as James Bond said in “Octopussy,” if you seek revenge, plan to dig two graves. When I realized that there were some guys saying some nasty stuff about me on another site I thought about registering just so I could defend myself but then I realized there was nothing I could say that wouldn’t just be personal attacks and I’d just get banned in a hurry anyway (plus I was kind of disappointed the people on the site who do come here and read weren’t defending me at all). It wouldn’t be constructive.

      • Hunk a Junk Says:

        What site, LP? I woulda defended you. I’ve got your back , chief. 🙂

        BTW, on a separate note, I want to admit that one of my predictions about TFA has not come to pass. It was not nominated for Best Picture. I was certain it was a lock. but I was wrong. I was happily, joyfully wrong.

      • lazypadawan Says:

        But you called it for a lot of other things! It would’ve been weird had TFA been the first SW film since ANH to get the best picture nomination. Not even TESB was nominated and whether it’s your favorite or not even close to your favorite, there’s really nothing about TFA that’s sooooo much better than any of its predecessors. It would’ve shown what a weak field 2015 was (and it was a really weak year for films) and looked like a ploy for ratings. And what would it have said about the Academy if it blew off six chances to honor Lucas and his saga but jumped at it when it was in someone else’s hands? Besides, “Mad Max” sucked up all of the concessions to the Comic Con crowd.

        The site was a Very Well Known Message Board attached to a Very Well Known Site.

      • Stefan Kraft Says:

        I think I know which page you mean, LP, and I should have defended you. I am sorry.
        BTW, the experiences you made reflect a bit of mine, too.

      • Cristian Martinez Says:

        Actually it was Fedor Dostoievski that have say if you would get revenge, plan to dig two graves.

      • lazypadawan Says:

        I knew they had to have gotten it from somewhere ;).

  28. ladylavinia1932 Says:

    Attack of The Clones is such a beautiful movie. I’ve never had any issues with it.

    Oh, I have a few issues with “Attack of the Clones”. I have issues with every STAR WARS movie ever made, let alone, every movie I have seen.

    But “Attack of the Clones” is one of my top two favorite SW movies. And I got teary eyed the last time I saw it (just yesterday). In fact, I always react in this manner.

    • Hoggle Says:

      I do too.

      My fav. episode but i have to conceed that is not the best star wars movie to me, those are equally RoTS & slightly grudgingly TESB.

      It seems everything was done all the same, where it could fallen into place as the best star wars movie though. RoTS could be made better also, but a better AoTCs could leap frog it.

      • lazypadawan Says:


        I don’t know, maybe I’m losing patience with fans who seem happier to criticize what’s in the movies on a prequel fan site than anything else…

      • Hoggle Says:


        I am surprised that it is not obvious i am a big fan of the prequel theatrical period, but if it is upsetting to your blogging fandom then i respect that.

    • Adam D. Bram (The Nilbog) Says:

      It’s weird, Clones is one of my least-favorites, but I feel it’s the best-made objectively?

      Phantom will always be my number 1 on a personal level.

      P.S. My thoughts on Awakens are up on my site. I normally don’t like to overplug my articles, but I would like some feedback on how successful I may or may not be in staying fair while still being honest.

      • Hoggle Says:

        AoTCs has a stylised art nouvelle fantasy look that is classical in a way to the pulpy steam punkesque period of pulpy fiction and fantasy of early 20th century inspired. In that way i think it will always be the best looking star wars film, along with having a pretty packed (abit too much for it’s full potential in running time) great middle act type of plot & story. 🙂

        My impression of Awakens is that it’s a pretty fast & loose EU type of sequel to GL’s original six, & for some people that is just as good for a time at the flicks while the experience of the whole thing lasts. Like anything some people are going to be bigger fans of something than others & Awakens has had some genuine fandom.

      • hansolo1138 Says:

        Objectively…I would have to say that The Force Awakens is the best-made Star Wars movie. By a long shot.

        It’s only my third-favorite subjectively (behind Empire and Revenge) but it is far and away the best-written, best-acted, best-paced, and has the best (if not the most innovative) special effects of any Star Wars movie.

        Does that make sense to anyone? Or am I crazier than Old Ben?

      • lazypadawan Says:

        That’s SUBJECTIVE. And as far as I’m concerned subjectively, it’s not even close to being the best made of the series, not by a long shot.

      • Bob Clark Says:

        Subjectively, I didn’t like TFA at all. Ovjectively, I can easily say that it’s a huge departure from how the other movies in the series are directed on a purely cinematic level. It much more resembles any other typical mainstream contemporary action movie. I think this may be why it gets responses like this. Lucas always had something strange and artistic in the way he wrote and shot his movies. That’s more or less gone now. TFA is more of a piece of the rest of pop culture now. It blends in, instead of standing out.

      • Jacobesico Says:

        I viewed some leaked clips of TFA on Youtube and it looks like a rehash of A New Hope to me.

  29. JustinJL Says:

    Celebration VI: Why We Love The Prequels Panel. https://youtu.be/z3-r2J1f17c

    • Brian47 Says:

      Finally watched that 2012 Celebration panel on the PT, thanks for sharing that link, Pablo and the group had some great comments and observations!

  30. andywylde77 Says:

    Ah it has been a very turbulent time for me being a SW fan these past 2 years. It is difficult to watch something you love get treated in a way that one knows doesn’t feel right. Sometimes I feel like I am being “seduced by the dark side” with how SW has been treated lately. I need to keep myself in check and realize that I could easily become what I loathed for years but for different reasons. The PT haters have caused me and many other SW fans so much grief and aggravation over many years and I need to keep myself from perpetuating the cycle of hate but from a different direction.

    Now do I hate the new film? No. I do think that the new film and films that follow aren’t being made with the intent that they should be made with. I do think that Disney and Lucasfilm are a bad combination. Disney is a corporate giant. Lucasfilm was created as an independent entity by a man with a great vision. That man is George Lucas. And I know deep down that if he was still in charge things would be a whole lot different. But I do have to deal with the here and now.

    I know that it is easy to get caught up in the negative aspects of what is going on with the franchise of late. I know I have been caught up in it. It breaks my heart to see SW in the current state it resides in. But time marches on and things will continue regardless of my feelings on the matter. I know I won’t be SW I used to before all this happened. I still love the world of SW with a passion. I do hope that maybe from this point forward that things take a better turn and that Lucasfilm realize that catering to one section of the fandom isn’t right. There is a much bigger fandom out there that needs respect also.

    And yes, I do miss Mr. Lucas very much.

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