Ask SWPAS 6/23/15

1) To what extent is peer pressure a role in creating haters? For instance the haters who say “I would have liked the prequels had it not been for x despite liking everything else” or whom keep saying “I like the PT except for x and y”

2) What expectations do you have for the Prequels Strike Back?

3) I know you(and starwarsdefender) are bit apphensive about a Sith as a villain for future movies, but could we have a new kind of sith not tied to the Rule of Two, and the Chosen one Prophecy be about destroying the Rule of Two?

1) In an essay I wrote years ago, I said the “bandwagon effect” was one of the main reasons why there are people who don’t like the prequels. If you see something said over and over enough times, you can start to believe it yourself especially if you had no strong opinion beforehand or if it’s important to you to be accepted.

2) I don’t know but I don’t think it’s going to be quiiiite the pro-PT rah-rah some fans seem to expect. But there are some interesting contributors involved.

3) No, the prophecy had no caveats or anything else to do with the Rule of Two. It was to bring balance to the Force by destroying the Sith.

What are your thoughts on Colin Hanks’ request for more female representation in Star Wars? Why do you think there’s been more demand for female representation in Star Wars?

I’m not real sure why Colin Hanks’s opinion is particularly relevant. In any case, there’s not a hell of a lot of “representation” of people who support the saga as a whole and that’s what I care more about. It would be nice to see them hire women to direct these movies and to see more novels/comics about the saga’s female characters but only if they’re good and not to serve some other agenda. Why is there a demand? Because people are always looking for “causes.”

How can we continue to differentiate ourselves from the very haters we fight against? How do we 1) explain to others why we’re different, and 2) how do we avoid proving them right by actually becoming what we hate?

Those are good questions and ones I struggle with sometimes. Art is subjective and Star Wars (or any fandom) is an emotional thing for us. It just is. So it becomes very difficult not to “lose it” around people who are baiting you or around a jerk who posts something stupid on a blog or publication’s web site. But I will say this…I have never personally encountered any prequel fan who is as bad as the very worst of the haters I’ve seen. So I reject any equivalence that some people try to make. I don’t go to their sites and bother them. I don’t follow them on Twitter just so I can jump on them whenever they offend me. Some of these guys though have no problem with trying to harass, bait, troll, or flame prequel fans.

Have you encountered SW fans that were not fans of the PT, but where you did not have any problems to “agree to disagree?” That is, real fans for whom the PT was not their cup of tea, and you had no problem accepting that?

Maybe one person.

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17 Responses to “Ask SWPAS 6/23/15”

  1. madmediaman Says:

    I would argue that the “hater” community is rather small…. in fact really small, and shrinking by the year. They are generall comprised of 30, 40, or 50 somethings who are basically just lazy fans. They wanted Star Wars a certain way (which usually involves Anakin donning the mask in Episode 1 and spending the next two movies hunting Jedi). This group simply had certain expectations Lucas was not interested in meeting; he was interested in telling a very specific story. Additionally most of these fans live along the banks of this river called Denial. In their little world the Original Trilogy was to them, Shakespeare. The acting was amazing, the dialog incredible. Unfortunately for them, in the real world the Original Trilogy at the time was savaged by critics because of it’s hokey dialog, bad acting, and over reliance on special effects. Mike Klimo (of Star Wars Ring Theory) has been doing yoeman’s work digging up old reviews of the OT from their original releases and posting them on his Twitter account. You can find him at @mikeklimo

    Of course this group is the loudest and most vocal on the interwebs, but that in no way makes them a majority. Like any retailer or manufacturing company will tell you, when it comes to service or products, online complaints received always outweigh compliments by an average margine of 15 to 1. People who like something rarely go out of their way on the internets to say so, but today’s society is dominated by social media and a bunch of loudmouth, snarky, mouthbreathers who have nothing better to do in life than tear down things that others appreciate.

    Just be happy to know that for every Garry Whitta, or Chuck Wendig, there are about 30 kids out there who absolutely adore the Prequels, and Clone Wars. And as us older fans grow older, we tend to move on to other, more grown up things… like life, so the ranks of diehard OT-only fans dwindles each year.

    As for the new films, there’s nothing I’ve seen so far that indicates to me that TFA is going to be anything more than a slobbering, nostalgia fest directed by a somewhat talented director who tends to be overly obsessed with… nostalgia. Once JJ was brought on board it’s pretty clear George’s influence on the Sequel Trilogy was going to be negligible which is unfortunate as Lucas has proven himself to be the finest storyteller of modern cinema, and knows what makes Star Wars tick. In JJ’s world, as he’s stated many times, Star Wars is a Western, which of course is nonsense… at it’s core DNA Star Wars is Flash Gordon/John Carter/Buck Rogers/Spysmasher… it’s Saturday morning serial/pulp/space opera… Lucas then liberally sprinkles in elements of John Ford, Tolkien, Kurosawa, David Lean, and mythology to tell a modern fable..

    • Daniel Xie Says:

      It depends on which group you define by “haters”

      If you mean the internet hateboy cult built around the Plinkett reviews or your average internet trolls with sterotypical or “mainstream” arguments such as hurr durr Jar Jar or hurr durr Trade Negotiations or hurr durr CGI overload against the Prequels or Lucas. Yes they are dying and they won’t be missed. They might as well sit on a lightsaber and make love to a White Walker on their way out.

      But if you mean people who choose to not like the Prequels but don’t waste their lives ranting and raging about the PT supposedly being “objectively” bad or spewing lies(not sure if Chuck Wendig is in this group or the former group through). But just because the PT is not their cup of tea…that’s probably gonna exist for some time–I myself know a couple people in my university in this group either because they like certain elements of the PT(suprisingly, the politics is a big favoured point here), but feel the other elements turn them off.

      With the former group you can just ignore them or link to ring theory or furious fanboys if you don’t mind, but for people that just don’t like the PT there really isn’t much you can do but agree to disagree. I am a huge GOT fan but I can understand why it is contentious for people, especially those who except morally pure morals and a happy ending at the end. And even I felt the scene with Sansa was a bit out of place for the sake of it.

      • Bob Clark Says:

        I think a lot of the people in the second group are a lot like the casual fans or moviegoers who might’ve seen the OT back in the day and enjoyed it, but in the end saw it as light-weight kiddie fare, disposable entertainment. They’re not haters– they’re just not “fans” either.

      • Daniel Xie Says:

        I wouldn’t say they are casual fans, they could have opinions similar to hateboys or like some aspects of the PT but turned off by others, but either still respect Lucas and/or aren’t willing to diss people for liking the PT on the internet but rather keep their opinions to themselves.

      • Bob Clark Says:

        I think there’s still a lot of people out there who just don’t take all this stuff seriously. Yeah, there’s all the people you mentioned. But there’s also people who take the SW movies as seriously as I take… say… “Homeland”. Was the last season or whatever kinda iffy? Probably, I guess. Will I see the next one? Of course. It’s “Homeland”.

      • Marshall Says:

        It doesn’t help that mainstream sites like Yahoo or i09 or Cracked keep fanning the flames.

      • lisse Says:

        I sometimes read AVClub reviews for certain shows I watch and I always forget that the commentariat there like to make digs at the PT when they’re making comments on tv that has nothing to do with Star Wars. It drives me up the wall. I was just reading a review for Netflix’s Bloodline and sure enough there was a comment that made a dig at George Lucas for rewriting history when talking about something about the show. That personally annoys me more than anti-PT articles because the former just seems to assume that the PT sucks and and it’s just natural that everyone just digs at it and at GL for it.

  2. Eduardo Jencarelli Says:

    http://www.tmz.com/2015/06/23/jake-lloyd-arrest-chase-video-anakin-skywalker-star-wars-south-carolina/

    Obviously, he’s responsible for what happened, but I still blame the fans for everything that’s happened to Jake.

    • lazypadawan Says:

      I was discussing yesterday on the FB page the allegations from Jake’s mother that he has schizophrenia and he’d stopped taking his medication. If that’s true, and I don’t see any reason why she would lie, then it explains this whole bizarre incident. I’m not saying he doesn’t have issues because of the crappy way he’s been treated by the media and the internet hate mob. But that unto itself doesn’t cause schizophrenia, or at least there’s no evidence it does.

  3. Nick Skywalker Says:

    I got a question for you Lazy. With Jurassic World ranking in the big bucks and destroying pretty much every opening weekend box office record ever, how do you think TFA will do? Better or about the same? I thought claims that TFA could rank in 500 million in opening weekend was far fetched, but Jurassic World just proved it is possible. And it retained the number one spot for the second weekend as well. Thoughts?

    • lazypadawan Says:

      I think Jurassic World’s huge box office success owes to a huge number of Gen Y-ers and older millennials for whom Jurassic Park was the movie of their childhood, the movie pleasing that audience, AND the film fully taking advantage of 3D IMAX. People are paying more money for tickets because you get to see a 35-foot dino lunging at you. It kicks the movie experience up several notches into thrill attraction territory.

      TFA is going to be in 3D and some scenes were shot on IMAX cameras but I don’t think this movie is going to be as designed for that format as Jurassic World obviously was. The question will be, are moviegoers (not just Star Wars fanatics) going to prefer to pay $20 and drive a bit further than usual instead of figuring it’ll be just as good in 2D at the mall AMC? I don’t know about that. Obviously they thought it’s just as good at the mall AMC when it came to the last Avengers flick, Hunger Games: Mockingjay Pt. 1, The Hobbit: Battle Of The Five Armies, etc.. All of those were available in 3D and most if not all of them were shown on IMAX screens.

      That said, I always thought TFA bringing in $500 million GLOBALLY opening weekend was entirely possible. $500 million domestic opening weekend is preposterous. I’m also skeptical it’ll bring in $2 billion or 2.5 billion globally when all’s said and done or whatever that wild prediction was.

    • madmediaman Says:

      The problem for the film is the release schedule. Christmas releases typically have smaller Windows to make money and the weekend before Christmas is usually a smallish weekend as people are traveling, last minute Christmas shipping, and otherwise occupied due to the holiday. I see a domestic gross around $395-415 million and about $1.2-1.3 billion worldwide.

      We’re this as summer release you’re probably looking at something north of $500 million in the US.

  4. Daniel Xie Says:

    What do you think about the evolution or the existence of the hateboy problem at fanfourm.com. Because I don’t know much about that fourm but I stumbled onto it. Was it always like that?

    They literally have unappreation threads for certain contentious elements of the Prequels and iirc one of the mods there is a hateboy.

    Don’t believe me? Check;

    http://www.fanforum.com/f99/

    • lazypadawan Says:

      I have never heard of this forum until you linked to it.

    • Jim Raynor Says:

      Don’t worry yourself about little hole in the wall forums. Even the actual big forums don’t represent the average and normal population. If you actually need “unappreciation” threads to whine about a 16 year old family movie with kids as a major target audience, you’ve got bigger problems than not liking a Star Wars film.

  5. Daniel Xie Says:

    Call me Devil’s Advocate but I do think there is a way to differentiate ourselves against the haters by doing something different in your response to Adam Bram’s post. That is the belief that we should be careful about trolls within the ranks of Saga fans that really aren’t that much different from hateboys. There was a reddit poster called sifo-dyas a few years ago who posted stuff from this blog(and Nilbog’s blog, and Star Wars Heresies blog, and acertainpointofview) on the star wars reddit page in defending the PT. But he did so in a rather rude and condensing way that it turned off a lot of people who might not even be hateboys in the first place when he screamed at everyone being brainwashed or controlled by the Hateboys. While the haters have pretty much monopolized the media this sort of rude behavior alienates imo a lot of people who could have. So I personally think we as Saga Fans should stand up for the PT in conventions and get our voices heard, or defend the PT when a pro-PT or neutral-PT web topic or video when it is being attacked by hateboys, but not invade threads or topics created by hateboys to attack the PT that caters to a hateboy audience. Otherwise IMO we aren’t much better than them because we are resorting to the behavior that they do, which is to disrupt threads and internet topics not part of their business.

    Furthermore we have to accept that not every PT fan would like every single detail in the PT. There was an outcry when StarWars.com omitted Anakin and Padme from a Valentine’s day couples list because the author didn’t feel they were a healthy relationship. However IIRC the author of that piece created a 6 reasons to watch the PT piece on StarWars.com as well, so we can’t single a person as a hateboy/hategirl because of one belief.

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