Ask SWPAS: Your Questions, My Answers I

Wow, that was fast! I got a bunch of questions already, mostly because some of you asked multiple questions, which is fine.

First, this one from Jelmer de Haan:

My brother is very fond of the works of a Star Wars fan who intents to ‘improve’ the Star Wars movies and claims on his website that what he makes are: “What the special editions should have been.” A claim, I believe to be untrue and unfair. The project is called Star Wars Revisited. Some changes are interesting, but In my eyes are not ‘owed’ to anyone or necessary, and this fan seems to think that he knows what best for Star Wars, more so than it’s creator George Lucas.

Now, what I was was curious about, is what your thoughts about this project, it’s changes and the attitude of it’s creator are. And if it basically the same as most fan-versions of the films. That is, if you’re familiar with it at all.

At the very least thanks for your consideration and the best of luck with whatever it is you’ll be working on in the future.

I have never heard of this particular project but I’ve known about many other similar “fan edits.” A few people do them just as a way to learn editing, but others do them because they’re a bunch of smarty pants who think they can do Star Wars better (there are also fan fiction writers who are the same way). Unless you’ve got access to every bit of footage shot, all you’re doing is taking things out that you don’t like. It’s like “editing” a book by ripping out pages and chapters that you found boring. No, you’re just ripping pages out of a book. Such projects don’t interest me. Those who can do, while everyone else hacks up movies on YouTube.

From Andrew B:

One of the things I hear the prequels getting most criticized about is their acting. I think it is preformed amazingly, but the majority seems to think otherwise. What do you think of the acting?

I thought the cast did a great job. Part of the reason why I’ve been doing the Great Scenes of the Prequel Trilogy posts is to point out how well-acted many of scenes were. It’s crazy to me that critics totally discount many of the fantastic performances, in big roles and small. By the way, critics who disliked the first set of Star Wars films, even some that liked them, also dismissed the acting as stiff, wooden, phoned-in, etc..

And now these questions from Daniel Xie (edited down):

Some have argued that the reason Disney pulled the plug on TCW is because of influence from Hateboys. How so? If anything, I have seen a lot of hateboys like the show as much as the Prequel fans.

If I had a dollar for every “TCW is better than the prequels” comment, I could’ve bought Lucasfilm back from Disney! *Eyeroll.* I think the main reason Disney canned the show was that it wanted its own project instead. It did the same thing to a Marvel animated show after it bought Marvel a few years ago, then produced its own show. The decision to set it closer to the OT era though probably was motivated to some degree by the anti-PT backlash. Though only Disney, Lucasfilm, and those who worked on the show know for sure.

In that regard, is it hypocritical for the hateboys to love the TCW but hate the prequels?

I don’t understand it, since Clone Wars is meaningless without the prequels. But they didn’t really get on board until after the first season or so, when they did all-bounty hunter episodes and stuff, and Ahsoka started acting older. They really hated her at first.

Do you think the downgrading of TPM from fresh to Rotten on RT with the re-release is because of hateboy influence on the critics? If that is so, has Disney done us a service by not releasing the 3D releases because then the hateboys will trash it to no end?

Yes on the first question; actually many critics ARE hate boys and saw the re-release as an excuse to re-review the film and trash it. No on the second. If they’re worried about RT now, they may as well not make any new Star Wars movies ever again.

(W)hat is the Prequel-fan stance on stuff like the KOTOR games or the Thrawn novels, both of which are liked by both PT fans and Hateboys alike? Yes GL gave the image of the Empire being fully defeated in ROTJ but the fact is that an empire like that has hold-outs on many worlds so it is very conceivable someone like Thrawn or Isard would step up to lead the remnants. And what of KOTOR? What about Legacy comics? Is 100 years enough gap for new Sith to emerge?

There’s no official prequel fan opinion on books, comics, or games. The only canon is what’s in the movies and in Clone Wars. Beyond that is apocrypha. Or whatever the Story Group ultimately decides.

With that aside, there are a lot of EU fans that are hateboys. Why so? Do you think it’s because they need to do something to somehow prove they are SW fans?

I think that group of fans prefer the EU’s vision of Star Wars over what’s in the actual films. Many of them were too young to have seen the first set of movies in the theater but read the novels and comics for almost a decade before TPM came out.

What are your thoughts about people defending the PT simply because it fit into their political view(s)?

Almost always they do that because they totally misinterpreted the films or because they are taking advantage of pop culture to persuade people politically. Then there are people who have attacked the films because they believe there’s a political or social agenda that they disagree with. It’s all cringe-inducing. You can research Lucas’s personal views and once you know them, it’s easy to see where he’s coming from. Then you can intelligently agree or disagree with what’s put on the screen.

Are hateboys “only” restricted to the internet or to geek/nerd clubs? Why is this happening? I have always heard of people being hateboys only on the Internet and the mass media, but why is this happening in real life? I do not know because I asked many of them about Plinkett and no one has heard of Plinkett videos. Why is this occuring with the average joe?

Because if people hear things enough times, they’ll start to believe it’s true.

Has there been a shift to hateboy mentality in the Jedi Council boards?

I thought it was bad 10 years ago and it’s worse now. I don’t even bother posting there anymore.

Got any questions? Post in the comments or send an e-mail to SWPASadmin@gmail.com.

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20 Responses to “Ask SWPAS: Your Questions, My Answers I”

  1. Morgan Cherney Says:

    that top question about Star Wars: Revisited i believe is Adywan’s infamous project. It got huge amounts of praise for its new effects, with people insisting Lucasfilm should hire him and let him do all future revisions to the films, if any.

    What i find hypocritically hilarious is that he was able to do in his edit was have cantina aliens, including Greedo, be able to blink. Bear in mind: this guy’s work has been PRAISED by fanboys. But then a year or two later, the blurays comes out with blinking ewoks, and fanboys starts screaming their pants off. So, a know-it-all fanboy/hateboy makes aliens blink, it’s AWESOME, but if George Lucas does it, it’s a TRAGEDY??

    • Jelmer de Haan Says:

      Excactly. That’s the one. And initially, when I was introduced to him I did think it was interesting to see someone doing more than just cutting things away. Also, a lot of the changes seemed to be meant to make some details more consistent, which was interesting, at least from a technical standpoint. The problem, however, is with the attitude to be found in his intentions and in his fans.

      Most films are changed very little, if at all if released on dvd and jet, somehow this project is used to claim that George Lucas somehow owed these changes to us. That this is what “The Special Editions Should Have Been”. Even though many of these changes are details most people won’t notice and they are certainly not necessary to enjoy the films and even though no movie has been adjusted like this if rereleased.

      And jet, there’s an equally vocal group who claims that no changes should be made to the films at all.

      There simply seem to be people who will take any change to throw any kind of negativity at George Lucas and whatever it is he does. Among them people with entitlement issues and people who hold George Lucas to an unfair standard.

      The thing is that George Lucas already did more than most by even adding to his films at all. He made a great filmseries with six marvelous installations which are available in good quality of which the latest blu-ray releases, in which some technical problems were smoothed out, are the best ones in my eyes. I’m very content with them and will enjoy the series for many years to come and am owed nothing.

      • Morgan Cherney Says:

        The people you speak of also tend to forget that even Charlie Chaplin made slight changes to his films as years went by. I think Shakespeare may have done the same with some of his writings (correct me if i’m wrong on that).

        Speaking of literature, how’s this: The original edition of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory had the Oompa Loompas, not as funny little people from Loompa Land…..but as African pygmies…..yes, you read that right. Further editions changed this for obvious reasons.

        But here’s a real prime example: The Hobbit. In the original edition, the chapter Riddles in the Dark (where Bilbo obtains the Ring from Gollum), was completely different from what we know today. In that version, Gollum gives the Ring to Bilbo as a prize for winning the riddle game and told him the way out of the caves. But then in writing the Lord of the Rings, Tolkien retooled the Ring into an object of evil, and made Gollum a more malicious, vengeful character, so he rewrote Riddles in the Dark accordingly.

        So it’s okay for Chaplin, Shakespeare, Roald Dahl, and J.R.R. Tolkien, but it’s blasphemy for George Lucas. Why? I guess cuz it’s freaking STAR WARS we’re talking about.

        People also have contended that it was the original version that won Academy Awards for effects…..you know, when i pop in the new versions, i can still see the original effects for star destroyers, the millenium falcon, laser blasts, escape pods, the walkers, asteroids, (most) creatures, so i’m not sure what the argument is…

      • maychild Says:

        The original version of Shel Silverstein’s “Where the Sidewalk Ends” has a poem titled “The Gypsies are Coming,” which details how gypsies are on the prowl for children to kidnap: “But just between you and me/ They never buy the bad ones.”

        When I looked through a later copy of that book, “gypsies” had been changed to the nonexistent word “googies,” although the illustration of a gypsy-like character with a sack full of stolen children remained the same. Obviously at some point real-life gypsies objected to that poem, and it was changed. To be fair, I don’t know if Silverstein himself changed it or the publisher did. But either way, the change was made, and unless it was made after Silverstein died (I honestly don’t know), he at least passively condoned it.

    • maychild Says:

      Also, the SE-hatin’ fanboys who screech about Greedo shooting first are almost always the first ones to come up with a list of changes THEY want made to the movies, and #1 on that list is almost always: “Change the Ewoks to Wookiees.”

      Some claim to be outraged on behalf of the late Richard Marquand, because “his” movie, ROTJ, was changed and he could do nothing about it. But that rings false. They have no problem making changes to “his” movie themselves, or calling for rather drastic changes to be made to “his” movie themselves. The changes are bad only if they don’t like them.

      When I finally saw the “Greedo shoots first” change, I said, aloud, “THAT is what all the fuss is about?”

      And the outrage about Boba Fett’s voice being changed is especially hilarious. I didn’t even KNOW his voice had been changed until someone pointed it out, and when I heard, I said, “Oh, cool. That’s some nice continuity between the trilogies.” But now he’s supposedly been “neutered” because his “tough guy” original voice has been replaced with the more “genteel” Tem Morrison voice and he’s lost all his “depth.” Depth that we probably didn’t know existed until the change was made.

      • Morgan Cherney Says:

        I know, right? i had the exact same thoughts with the walkie talkies in E.T. i saw the re-release in the theaters, and was able to identify every new change…EXCEPT the walkie talkies, which were pointed out to me later. And even then, it was blown completely out of proportion, with people acting like they were using walkie talkies AS guns, when really it was just ONE shot with agents HOLDING walkie talkies instead of guns. It seemed an infantile mindset of “GUUUUUUNS! WE NEED GUUUUUUUUUUNS! AMERICA, FUCK YEA, GUUUUUUUUUNS! GIMME GUUUUUUUUNS!”

        I should note that i don’t even find Boba Fett’s original voice “badass”. It sounds robotic. I think hateboys only demand it back because they heard it FIRST. Same with the Ewok song. The original Ewok celebration song WAS a good song…but it’s also a SILLY song. Listen to to it raw, and it just sounds SILLY, not worthy of rounding out what was then supposed to be the final chapter of an epic saga. But because fans heard it FIRST, they demand it back.

      • Jelmer de Haan Says:

        Exactly. I believe that George Lucas should be commended for actually returning to his work and adding to it. But apparently every change that he made, that was more than extending backgrounds, is somehow made out to be terrible (and sometimes even immoral), especially when it reminds of anything that’s not the first 2(,5) films.

        And concerning Shakespeare, I’m aware of different versions existing of several of his plays and it is very probable that Shakespeare himself had a hand in this as far as I know. What’s interesting though is that the modern pronunciation in these plays cause puns and other information to be lost because of later changes in the English language. And jet, many people would say that Shakespeare has to be performed in RP, regardless of were it is performed, because that´s what people are now used to and the status RP has among, what you might call, the elitists. Even though RP didn´t exist in Shakespeare´s time. Some were actually offended when Orson Welles´s version of Macbeth actually had the Scottish sound Scottish (Or mr. Welles’ approximation thereof).

        And in regards to to Boba Fett and the Ewok Song. I feel exactly the same. There is no reason anyone should get upset about these changes. And I for one like the fact they made Boba’s voice more consistent and very much prefer the new ending theme to the old. To me it’s much more fitting for the end of an era with a certain bittersweet sound to it.

        It basically comes down to people failing to put things in perspective. People force their own idea of what something should be on others and are offended if something doesn´t conform to their expectations and standards and blow details way out of proportion. These differences simply don’t make or break the viewing experience.

        And the standard George Lucas is held to is simply ridiculous and hypocritical. Like, you said, somehow George Lucas isn’t allowed to alter his own work whereas others Like Tolkien and Chaplin do it and that barely get noticed or mentioned.

  2. Morgan Cherney Says:

    Also, i must respectfully disagree with your views on the EU. i mean, yes, the movies DO take highest precedence over all other material, with TCW and i’m supposing Rebels just below it. i’m not disputing that at all, on that we agree. But to refer to everything else as “apocryphal” or that it just doesn’t count just seems wrong in my opinion. Bear in mind that Lucasfilm keeps an extensive Holocron database, maintained by Leeland Chee, which records all events in movies, shows, games, books, etc. Lucasfilm obviously cares about it’s continuity. But yes, there is a tier-based structure to Lucasfilm’s canon:

    G-Canon, the movies
    T- Canon, television shows
    C- Canon, books, games, comics, etc
    S- Canon, secondary canon, older material that’s not really talked about much anymore.
    Infinities, material that is flat-out non-canon

    Of course the movies are up top, and supersede all others. Television does this as well, i actually got into a few arguments with fanboys about this regarding the new Mandalorian girl on Rebels, who were all “she’s no Mandolorian! This is completely against the Mandolorian code!” To which i explained “hey, i’m as much an EU fan as the next person, and you may not like it, but this show legally supersedes it. Wait for the show and see if it ties in well with the EU or not.” But, we need to remember that the EU has even had its own influences on the films: Coruscant, Aayla Secura, the Outrider appearing in the Special Edition of Ep IV, Quinlan Vos is mentioned by name. Lucasfilm clearly cares, and even though he doesn’t follow the EU, i think Lucas himself cares too, although he has the right to supersede something.

    You do bring up the point of the story group, and yes, we’re told that the EU is to be “streamlined”. Whatever that means, i don’t know, i’m both scared and curious as to what’s in store. But my overall point is i think the EU deserves a little bit more credit than what you give it. There’s my two cents.

    • maychild Says:

      Coruscant was on a list of names for the Imperial capital (formerly the Republic capital) that Lucas gave to Zahn when he wrote his first three books. Zahn didn’t invent it. I suppose Lucas himself thought it was as good a name as any when writing the prequels.

      Aayla Secura was included in Episodes II and III because Lucas saw her on the cover of some comic book and the idea of a Twi’lek Jedi appealed to him. (Other, um, things about her probably appealed to him too.) The character is in the movies but that does not canonize her whole EU storyline.

      The Outrider is a ship belonging to the Han Solo ripoff…er, I mean, Dash Rendar, no? I’m betting Lucas doesn’t even know what it is. I doubt he specifically told the people working on the SEs to put the Outrider in ANH; it was probably one of the FX people’s idea of an in-joke, and when Lucas saw it, it just looked like another ship to him. Lucas does know nerdy SW details, despite what the average hateboy likes to think (i.e., that he’s a distant figurehead and couldn’t care less about SW itself); when he appeared on a talk show and a fanboy rather contemptuously asked him the name of the Imperial that Vader Force-chokes in ANH when he finds his lack of faith disturbing, he rattled it off easily. But I doubt he knows, or cares, about EU-only details, unless they pertain to the PT EU.

      On that note: Quinlan Vos was part of the PT EU, which is definitely more consistent with the movies than the post-ROTJ and inter-trilogy stuff (at least the inter-trilogy stuff that was written before the PT started coming out), and Lucas does have some direct involvement with that. I don’t mean rubber-stamping a general storyline, which is the extent of his involvement with the post-ROTJ stuff, I mean, he’s actually contributed ideas to it and worked with EU authors to make it consistent with the movies.

      Of course, I am extremely biased: I hate the EU and think it deserves absolutely no credit whatsoever. That’s my two cents.

      • Morgan Cherney Says:

        My point with those items was simply that EU material HAS had its influence on the films, that’s all. However if what you say about Coruscant is true, that Lucas came up with the name for Zahn, that can be scratched off the list.

      • Morgan Cherney Says:

        also, i think George knows what the Outrider is. He’s said he enjoyed the Shadows of the Empire project so much that if he had the power to do so (such as travel back in time to between 1980 and 1983, and use today’s technology), he’d love to make a movie of that story.

      • maychild Says:

        I can’t reply directly to your last comment; the software won’t let me. But even if Lucas liked SOTE, it doesn’t mean he asked for the Outrider to be put into ANH, or even knew what it was.

        I enjoyed SOTE for what it was, and I didn’t even mind the Gary Stu Xizor that much. But I do like how it’s been flatly contradicted by the changes to ESB: the Sithly convo between Vader and Palps that Xizor eavesdrops on has been changed.

  3. Mike S Says:

    The reason why Disney canned TCW had more to do with the fact that each episode cost over a million dollars to produce. Times that by twenty two and you can imagine a massive corporation like Disney, wouldn’t want to spend that kind of money on an animated series.

    Lucas created TCW because he wanted to see it and didn’t care if he took a loss. Disney have to appease their shareholders, first and foremost.

    • maychild Says:

      I think you may have something there. Disney is notorious for its penny-pinching. It’s one of the skinniest flints in the biz, actually.

  4. evangelian007 Says:

    Hey Lazy!
    I got a question regarding Clone Wars:
    How much did the episodes cost to make? Because Lucas and Filoni never said how they much costed. Was it as expensive as the Young Indiana Jones serial/tv show? Or was it less?
    It something that I always felt curious ever since the show aired.

  5. Andrew B Says:

    Another question I have is why were the Star Wars films (especially the prequels) snubbed at the Academy Awards? We’ll start with episode I. Nominated for 3 (best VE, sound mixing, sound editing) losing ALL 3 to the Matrix. Not sure how fair that is, but whatever. I think that all 3 prequels deserved nominations for best original score (John Williams is perfection) and best costume design for Trisha Biggar, who costumed the galaxy flawlessly. And the only one that didn’t receive a nomination for best visual effects was ROTS! That makes ZERO sense! And finally, while I thought the acting was magnificent from all people, I thought Ian McDiarmid deserved a nomination for best supporting actor for his flawless work in episode III. Just my thoughts. What is your take on how the oscars forgot the prequels?

  6. obi-rob-kenobi Says:

    I also haven’t gone back to the force.net and dont intend to. They just dont give a **** about blatant Lucas/LFL/SWSaga hate no matter how much it goes on or how bad the worst hateboys act month after month year after year. They just never ever ban anything they do or say.

    I hate that place now. None of them know or care at all about The Star Wars Saga. They just think of it as a sandbox they can play in and remake as they see fit endlessly. They dont care what the actual story is. They dont care about SW. The whole website got consumed by ignorant little troll hateboys and you just know they are all young pretentious little snots who have JUST recently discovered or at best re-discovered SW, have never care to EVER listen to a word GL says or has ever said about his lifes work and they just kinda like playing the videogames and trolling the message boards. Thats about it.

    Thats all they are. Thats all it is now. The actual SW fanbase exists on here and on lots of personal blogs and with kids –before the hateboys get to them with their propaganda and their war on George Lucas. After that there is no SW fanbase…its more like a public subway or a wallmart everywhere else.

    One nice thought is that years and years from now when these awful excuses for people are finally dead all that will be left is six classic movies that…when simply watched in normal order (the way you count) make a truly wonderful and amazing story.

    People WILL see these six movies and they WILL simply receive the artistic intent of there creator. Simply by sitting down…and watching them.

    And guess what it will be known as?

    It will be known as “The Original Star Wars Saga”. The one that George Lucas did.

    • It's a me-a. Says:

      Beware the dark side, young padawan. Much anger is there in you.
      Let it go. Find peace before it consumes you.

  7. PrinceOfNaboo Says:

    My question to SWPAS
    :
    I’ve only discovered Star Wars in 2006, so I completely missed the original releases of the films and what was going on.

    I’ve always wondered how “fandom” has changed over the years?
    When the respective movies came out: Were there more people (I mean fans, specifically) who loved them or who hated them?
    Was it balanced?
    Is it worse nowadays than when the movies came out?
    What was the situation overall?

    I’d appreciate it a lot if you could just give a short overview of the “evolution of fandom and the reception of the films when they were orginally released among SW fans”. This is especially directed at the Prequel films, but I’m also interested in fan’s reactions to the Ep. V and VI when they were released as well (I don’t know if you’re old enough to remember?).

    Thank you in advance.

  8. Adam D. Bram (The Nilbog) Says:

    My question: would I look cute as a blonde?

    Just kidding.

    My real question is: Is there anything about I-III (or even IV-VI) that needed to grow on you? I know my journey as a fan involved a lot of epiphanies about what was really going on, and parts that I used to not care for are now some of my favorites. Any moments like that for you?

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