Having missed Celebration VI, I was very happy to see video of the “Why We Love The Prequels” panel posted on YouTube (linked through my 9/13 post). What I liked about the prior panel at CV and this one was that it was one of the few opportunities to discuss the inner workings of the saga, something people seem to totally miss these days. It’s as though nobody wants to speak about that kind of stuff anymore. If Star Wars comes up, it’s usually in a context that’s not positive or very thoughtful. The panels had the feel of a late night college chat session, minus the alcohol.
Still I couldn’t help but feel everyone was tap dancing around the big white bantha in the room and that is what created this animosity toward the prequels and what, if anything, can be done about it? I suspect nobody wants to bring this stuff up because everyone wants happy vibes and they’re at an officially-sanctioned event. It’s too bad because lots of heads were there together and maybe somewhere in the mix would have been a few good ideas. After all, I came up with SWPAS at Celebration IV while talking to people who frequented the old Anakin/Padme Defenders thread on TFN’s message board.
Certainly, panels like this one are helpful and maybe those who missed it for whatever reason are able to see it online. Maybe a lone soul will say to himself, “Never thought of it that way before” and will give the films a second look. Maybe someone who feels the way we do will come out of his or her shell once they see other people validating their viewpoint.
But we’re not going to make serious headway if we don’t stop being polite and start being honest. Nobody addressed the second-class status of fans who appreciate the whole saga or how the prejudice against these movies is affecting what gets licensed. (Or when panels get scheduled, i.e. early in the morning on Sunday.) Maybe they were shooting for something more informative than a long kvetching session, but it doesn’t have to be purely that either. I’m just saying, “Sure we know these movies are cool. What do we do then to help convince the world?” And you can’t do that if you don’t acknowledge the obstacles and figure out a way to overcome them. To me, “wait for Gen-Xers to die” isn’t a solution. I am one after all. “Wait for those young kids to grow up” isn’t a solution, especially since I’m seeing posts along the lines of “I loved TPM when I was six but now I think it sucks.” It’s become almost expected that even non-basher types in fandom make some sort of statement denigrating the prequels. Don’t get me started again on stunts like casting bashers on Clone Wars. Just the other day, I unfollowed two non-Star Wars accounts on Twitter because of cheap shots at the prequels.
Our work’s not done, not by a long shot.
Tags: PT Activism
September 17, 2012 at 8:18 pm |
That’s exactly what I was getting at by saying that you should be a part of the next panel. Addressing this stuff now, even if it would rain on the parade a little, would help LFL’s bottom line in the long run; the more people that like *more* of Star Wars as a whole, the better for the financial success of the whole franchise.It’s sad to have to boil it down to money like that, but sometimes, that’s the only way to get a company’s attention. Disney wouldn’t be what it is if it didn’t have a vast and diverse stable of characters/stories, and it’s the same with Star Wars. Would Disneyland/World be as enticing to people if it was only Mickey, Minnie, Donald, and Goofy over and over and over?
…and I thought the same thing about the Sunday morning time slot!
September 18, 2012 at 7:01 pm |
I’ve said as much a while back, that the language they speak is “money.” One of my regrets about not attending Celebration was missing the opportunity to talk to some of the licensees at the show. At Comic Con, it’s a madhouse and it’s hard to get anyone’s attention for long.
As for any panel at Celebration it’s not up to me to decide the panel mix.
September 18, 2012 at 6:19 am |
I think the problem is Lucasfilm. Until they treat the saga as a whole with equal respect nothing will change. I think most people hop on the band wagon because they think it’s hip or are just afraid to be themself. Most like to follow. If Lucasfilm would stop the B.S. I’m sure people would take a second look.
September 18, 2012 at 6:28 am |
I agree. Lucasfilm is the problem and it starts with Rick McCallum and his never-ending “I know YOU don’t like his [George's] blabla.”. I’m just so sick of it.
I’m glad Matt Lanter named ROTS as his favourite, but we have to reach a time when he doesn’t have to feel “guilty” (“Some of you might gakw….”) or anything like that about it.
September 18, 2012 at 7:02 am
We all need to start calling Lucasfilm out on their blog or anywhere else we can. We need to be heard by them. Look at Detures wth is that but a fan boys wet dream. Han as the main character, in the preview alone they already bashed the PT twice. Maybe more. Couldn’t bring myself to watch it twice. I use this losley, it’s Star Wars with penis and fart jokes and Lucasfilm is behind this. They ignored the 10th Annivesary of AOTC. And continue to OT content and images on thero web site. Every time they post something ignoring or insulting about the PT call them out on their blog. Let’s be heard. And nip this poodu at its sorce.
September 18, 2012 at 7:10 pm |
I’m going to give “Detours” a chance; based on all of the preview clips I’ve seen it seems to be an equal-opportunity spoof of all things Star Wars.
What’s disappointing to me is Lucasfilm deciding to use the Prime Directive, if I can mix my fandoms, when it comes to bashing. I think they’ll just fly in the direction they think fandom winds are blowing. Not to say they give the bashers everything they want but I suspect it’s because of having to obey Lucas’s wishes, not because they agree with those wishes.
September 18, 2012 at 9:15 pm |
“Still I couldn’t help but feel everyone was tap dancing around the big white bantha in the room and that is what created this animosity toward the prequels and what, if anything, can be done about it?”
I think alot of it is that the PT films retconned alot of the EU which pissed off alot of older fans. Also I think many of these fans had become accustom towards the EU style of Star Wars and unaccustomed to Lucas’ version of Star Wars which they view as inferior. Many of these fans will argue that the EU is just as cannon as the films but they are not. As pointed out the older fans are doing a good job brainwashing the younger fans into hating the PT. I don’t know how many posts I see online now of younger fans stating they once liked the PT but now hate it after being shown the light by the internet. Sadly the internet spreads BS better than the truth and the media just follows it making things worse.
September 19, 2012 at 6:27 pm |
You do have a very good point. Some years back I wrote about the four reasons why people who dislike the prequels dislike the prequels and that may be reason #5. There’s a section of fandom whose introduction to Star Wars was through those books. They actually care more about that expanded universe version of Star Wars than the films and get upset whenever Lucas rudely intrudes on the holy and sacred continuity.
September 18, 2012 at 9:16 pm |
LP – I wrote a realtively lengthy comment via FB which included my sign on name, email etc. but when I clicked “post” it all disappeared. Not sure if it was sent to your approval mail or the computer ate it.
September 19, 2012 at 5:19 am |
I always looked at the EU as a what if seneario. Even back in the early 90ds. It if dosen’t stem for Lucas it’s just not Star Wars. I’ve never been a fan of the guys making Detours. I’ll watch the first episode and decide from there if it worth my time. So far, I’m not impressed. I’ve seen first hand how adults try and influwence there kids in disliking things they don’t. It’s sad. The do as I say not as I do mentallity. My youngest son is 12 and AOTC is still his favorite. The only film he dosen’t like is ANH. I’m cool with that. I believe children should make their own chooses. It’s the only way they are going to learn, and become their own person.
September 19, 2012 at 6:23 pm |
It looks like the computer ate it. Try sending it again.
September 19, 2012 at 11:12 am |
So basically you’re saying my Wait for Our Generation to Die strategy isn’t bold enough for you?
. J/k
September 19, 2012 at 12:22 pm |
Lol
Maybe we help speed some of them along.
September 19, 2012 at 12:23 pm
I gotta stop typing on my phone. Every other word comes out misspelled or it edits out a word. Damn technology.
September 19, 2012 at 6:23 pm |
Not quite
.
September 19, 2012 at 9:00 pm |
In my experience I find that much of the PT haters snub the EU for some strange reason or another. I once got into an argument on Amazon about midi-chloreans and I brought up that when Lucas would meet with authors about storylines for the EU, he would reveal to them about midi-chloreans-and this was before the prequels. One commentor said that the EU books don’t count because they are fan-written and that some things are best left on the cutting room floor. I fired back that the EU are NOT “fanfic’s” (per se) but written by professional writers whose storylines must be approved by Lucasfilm. For me the EU helps fill in the gaps where the films couldn’t explain enough due to storyline and time limitations.
September 20, 2012 at 5:32 am |
If you read the Making of Star Wars books the concept of midi-chloreans dates back to Lucas’s original notes. There just wasn’t time to fit it into the original film. I love the addition of them. When I was a kid I often wondering how some can use the Force and others can’t. Now we know. Brilliant addition. I love the scene when Qui-Gom explains them to Anakin. The midi’s where there since the beginning.
September 20, 2012 at 8:32 am |
I have seen many EU fans who are also PT haters. There have been many complants at Lucas for not following EU continuity with the PT films even though it is his art. My view of the EU is that it is a matix of many different alternative takes and views on Star Wars. This also a reason why it doesn’t always mesh well with the films. Even Lucas himself has stated that the EU is an alternate universe, a separate continuity from the films but some fans just don’t want to accept this. Personally I am indifferent torwards the EU and I won’t bash anyone for liking or disliking it.
September 20, 2012 at 10:06 am |
Back in the day, the EU of any series was simply “Media Tie-In” books designed chiefly to bolster and maintain interest inbetween the dark times where there was no new source material. Why the EU should ever be regarded as source material is beyond me. Even the stuff I personally love.
September 20, 2012 at 11:50 am
That’s how I see it, too, Paul. The EU is like when some Major League ball club goes over to Japan and plays the Yomiuri Giants or whoever in an exhibition game–it might be a great game, and some of your favorite players might be on the field, but in the end, it doesn’t count. That doesn’t mean that it never happened, or that you can’t always remember it fondly, just that it doesn’t impact the regular season in any real way.
September 20, 2012 at 1:45 pm
Well said.
September 20, 2012 at 2:27 pm
thanks, oxward–I was just making it up as I went along, and then was like, “hey, this actually makes sense!”
September 20, 2012 at 6:08 pm
I view it this way…the movies and Clone Wars = what actually happened, the EU = apocrypha.
September 21, 2012 at 12:15 am |
I think everyone can construct her/his own canon, maybe be disappointed that it is not officially acknowledged… but certainly not run around and shout that SW was ruined forever because GL has a different idea of what happened.
September 22, 2012 at 9:06 pm |
And yet if these “fans” of the EU are PT haters then they must limit themselves to only one era of the expanded universe because the EU now spans from BEFORE the prequels, when the Sith were more plentiful, to after the OT when the Jedi Order is restored-therefore they’re not really EU fans-HA HA!
September 20, 2012 at 2:39 pm |
I don’t know if there is a solution to the problem, other than ask LucasFilm to stop treating the PT like a bastard child. Someone named Timothy Sexton had a curious theory about why so many dislike the PT. He believed that the second trilogy was better written than the first (not an opinion that I share, for I believe that the two trilogies are equal in quality, if different in style). But Sexton also believed that the reason behind the excessive PT bashing might be due to the possibility that “the original trilogy appealed directly to the simplistic moral perspective of an America above reproach and always on the side of right in global geopolitics; whereas the much more subversive prequel trilogy stands in defiant counterpoint to a much more dangerously simplistic moral absolutism.
In other words, audiences preferred identifying with the Rebels, whose moral absolutism leads them to fight against the Empire, over identifying with the PT characters, whose more ambiguous and realistic personalities led them to make mistakes. Audiences rather be heroic rebel fighters than complex individuals that screw up due to bad decisions.
September 20, 2012 at 6:26 pm |
The prequels are basically about a bunch of people who screw up one way or another and things are not very clear in that era. The opening scene in AOTC where the ship flies in upside down into the fog is a great visual metaphor for what the prequel part of the saga is about. I addressed it more or less in my old piece on why people don’t like the prequels; there were those who wanted the same thing all over again. In the war between the Rebels and the Empire, the lines are very clear, though the lines start to blur once we find out Vader is Luke’s father.
September 21, 2012 at 12:12 am |
Personally, I’d like to see an honest discussion on a celebration between some “pro-PT” and some “no-PT” people why they love/don’t like the prequels. (Note that “honest” would automatically disqualify Simon Pegg, the RLM guy and others.
) Such a civilized discussion may bring us back to more civilized times in fandom where it was not a problem to disagree. (Wait, were there such times?) The “no-PT” people may also present some good points worth discussing and show that the basher arguments are rather pathetic etc.
Now wait, LP,
I’m also aware of reasons why Lucasfilm shouldn’t do that: it could be seen as an official acknowledge that the prequels do not need to be always considered as “real” Star Wars – something that GL himself certainly opposes. Moreover, Lucasfilm should rather promote all six movies and not shed a negative light on some of them. And who says that the discussion would work and convince the bashers? (Basher: “Well, the no-PT guy said that he does not like the idea of the midichlorians – see??? They s*ck, therefore the prequels are ruined beyond hope of redemption!” The basher may ignore the nuanced discussion and just interprete it in his/her own way…)
Personally, I would like if Lucasfilm allowed an open and honest discussion – but I can also see why they won’t (and maybe shouldn’t) do it.
September 21, 2012 at 1:54 am
I don’t think this is a good idea for the reason you already mentioned.
It’s not Lucasfilm’s job to allow a “neutral discussion” about their films. It’s their job to treat their movies equally and promote them, hightlight the qualities.
Otherwise they would have to alow a discussion about pros and (how dare I to say) cons of TESB and you know what happens if you critize the holy ESB
@LP
Your “old pieces”…are they still available to read on the internet?
Here’s the link: Why People Who Don’t Like The PT Don’t Like The PT
September 21, 2012 at 6:10 pm
Have to agree with PrinceOfNaboo; the idea of Celebration is to celebrate Star Wars not to debate it. Frankly I don’t want to sit around and listen to people who don’t like the movies. either.
September 20, 2012 at 3:50 pm |
I like that drush. Makes sense to me.
September 21, 2012 at 5:30 am |
Again, this is why I say we must call Lucasfilm out where and when we get the chance. Official Blog, Insider, Bantha Tracks, Star Wars.com, email or if possible in person. Instead of wasting our time and energy of these ignoramus’ on forums let’s bring it to the man.